Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > Virgin Media Services > Virgin Media Internet Service
Register FAQ Community Calendar

Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 15-07-2008, 12:13   #11746
SimonHickling
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 66
SimonHickling is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Another vote for academic / technical breach of copyright

Quote:
Hi Simon,
Strictly speaking there's an argument that a system like Phorm infringes copyright by copying and analysing pages for the purpose of serving ads elsewhere. In reality, I can't see site operators doing anything about that. I doubt we would be bothered by such use. The infringement argument strikes me as an academic, technical one. You have probably read this argument already, though, if you read my editorial on Phorm (http://www.out-law.com/page-9090).

Regards,

[redacted]



From: Simon Hickling [redacted]
Sent: 13 July 2008 00:55
To: [redacted]@out-law.com
Subject: Copyright Notice



Hi,

I have been looking at some of the articles on your site and found them most informative and useful, thank you.

I am interested in your copyright notice and wondered how it would fit in with the Phorm/Webwise system currently being considered by BT, Talk Talk and Virgin Media? Given that this system uses a copy of the content as transmitted in order to provide targeted advertising, my understanding of both their system and the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulation 2002, suggests that it would be illegal for them to profile your site content for commercial gain? They could also be treated as a publisher of that information, but would not include any specific disclaimers regarding legal advice.

I would be interested in your opinion if you are in a position to give it. If you cannot could you please let me know?

Again thanks for an informative site.

Regards

Simon Hickling


PS I would welcome the opportunity to pass any reply on to others with similar interests via the forum at cableforum.co.uk. I f you would prefer me not to please let me know in your reply. Anything posted will NOT include any identifying data about yourself.
SimonHickling is offline  
Advertisement
Old 15-07-2008, 12:18   #11747
Dephormation
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bristol
Services: Aquiss.net and loving it. No more Virgin Media, no more Virgin Phone, no more Virgin Mobile.
Posts: 629
Dephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to all
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonHickling View Post
Another vote for academic / technical breach of copyright
Quote:
Strictly speaking there's an argument that a system like Phorm infringes copyright by copying and analysing pages for the purpose of serving ads elsewhere. In reality, I can't see site operators doing anything about that.
That bit in bold. That is factually wrong. More factually wrong than the statement "Elvis lives!".

More wrong than you could possibly ever be wrong.

And perhaps I may be able prove it soon, with a little help from a friend.
Dephormation is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 12:19   #11748
Deko
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 121
Deko is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

From

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ne...ition-400.html

Quote:
"The system works by giving those who opt-in a number, we never know who they are, we store no personally identifiable information," he says.
Finally opt-in model confirmed by Kent. Thats got to hurt.
Deko is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 12:27   #11749
AlexanderHanff
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,028
AlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful one
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deko View Post
From

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ne...ition-400.html



Finally opt-in model confirmed by Kent. Thats got to hurt.
No the system is still very much Opt-Out he is just being very careful to avoid using the words Opt-Out. If you read the updates to their web site he completely obfuscates the matter of opt-in/opt-out to try and remove focus from it.

Alexander Hanff
AlexanderHanff is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 12:38   #11750
Dephormation
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bristol
Services: Aquiss.net and loving it. No more Virgin Media, no more Virgin Phone, no more Virgin Mobile.
Posts: 629
Dephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to allDephormation is a name known to all
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

As posted to NoDPI, London Stock Exchange is showing a small sale of PHRX stock today at a 12 month low price (£12.83)

PHRX is the unrestricted stock.

09:43:26 15-Jul-2008, £12.83.33, 150, £1,925.00, Ordinary Trade
Dephormation is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 12:56   #11751
AlexanderHanff
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,028
AlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful one
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

OK I need someone to volunteer to send out a press release, I was going to do it myself but I am just completely overloaded with thing to do in time for tomorrow morning, so if someone can take this task off my hands it would be very much appreciated.

It needs to go to as many press/media newsrooms as possible including online press. Madslug has been working on a list of contacts if you contact her I am sure she would be happy to pass them on to you.

Ideally this needs to go out within the next 2 hours at the latest. Unfortunately I have been running around all day sorting out printing issues, getting the generator for the speeches and a whole bunch of other things. It looks like our original printer has let us down (no contact in the last 2 days and I was supposed to be going to Manchester to pick them up this morning) so I have had to organise printing from elsewhere at the last minute which is unfortunately taking up all my time at the moment.

Please let me know if you are going to take on the press release job so I know it is being dealt with.

Thanks

Alexander Hanff
AlexanderHanff is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 15:30   #11752
Rchivist
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 831
Rchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of QuadsRchivist has a fine set of Quads
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff View Post
No the system is still very much Opt-Out he is just being very careful to avoid using the words Opt-Out. If you read the updates to their web site he completely obfuscates the matter of opt-in/opt-out to try and remove focus from it.

Alexander Hanff
I'll back that comment. BT have also, even following the ICO, consistently and continuously FAILED to change their official public stance on opt-in/opt-out/not opted-in etc. for the Phorm product. As far as I can see, the trial is definitely opt-IN (with technical holes) but the final product is anyone's guess - they are not publicly committed to obeying the ICO's requirement for Opt-IN.

They have simply said - the phorm/webwise TRIAL will be "opt-IN" but then declined to discuss the cookie arrangements except to say that if you are opted in then block the relevant domains, you will be unable to browse. That's on record.

I suspect they don't want the issue discussed in any way, because of course it impacts on the legality/illegality arguments about their covert trials which were of course, no opt-in/out at all. So while they are worrying about the police knocking at the door, they can't really afford to publicly backtrack and accept the legal requirement that legality requires informed consent and opt-IN.

They have also refused to clarify what tracking/profiling/ is done on those who NEVER opt-in to the trial (they use obfuscated language that APPEARS to say that they don't touch you - but the argument has enough wriggle room for a Routemaster to get through sideways).

They also are very careful to use vague words with no clear technical definition for the activity of intercepting/tracking/profiling/copying. You can never work out exactly what they mean. They will never say what packets go where in an unambiguous clear sentence.

They BT - have also said they are "working on" a cookie free system for opting in/out for the possible final rollout, and have never answered any technical questions on the topic.

They have also been very careful to use vague hard to define language whenever talking about opt-in/out/not opt-in/choice - as slippery as a bowl of spilt custard on top of a floor covered in diesel oil.

As always - its the questions they WON'T answer and the things they DON'T say, that give the game away.
Rchivist is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 15:57   #11753
Privacy_Matters
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 174
Privacy_Matters is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I have sent a short Press Release to Regional Newspapers and Radio Stations in Scotland.

The Press release can be viewed on the badphorm Blog:

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...als.php?blog.2

---------- Post added at 15:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:44 ----------

Can anyone help compile Regional lists of Newspapers, Radio and TV Stations please.
Privacy_Matters is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 16:02   #11754
Florence
Inactive
 
Florence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Services: The wonders of Sky TV BT line and Aquiss.net ADSL cable dies on 5th RIP VM.
Posts: 4,004
Florence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appeal
Florence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appealFlorence has a bronzed appeal
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Sent the press release to Manchester evening news
Florence is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 16:29   #11755
Wildie
Inactive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 231
Wildie will become famous soon enoughWildie will become famous soon enoughWildie will become famous soon enough
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

el reg today http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...annual_report/
not sure if it old or posted before
full report i think here http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...rt_2007_08.pdf
Wildie is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 18:48   #11756
serial
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 133
serial is on a distinguished roadserial is on a distinguished road
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Also everyone going should have a look at this pic (click to zoom):


Look from the bottom left, you see the metal studs in the ground. This marks the seperation of Barbican(private) land and public land.

No protesting on the Barbican side of this line.

For pics of the protest site see:

http://badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugins/f...topic.php?7287
serial is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 18:49   #11757
Hank
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

http://forums.pcw.co.uk/thread.jspa?...39246&tstart=0

Hank
 
Old 15-07-2008, 19:04   #11758
AlexanderHanff
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,028
AlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful oneAlexanderHanff is the helpful one
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

About to start the Security Now podcast, hit http://twitlive.tv to see the podcast recorded live and interact via their chat room.

Alexander Hanff
AlexanderHanff is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 19:09   #11759
Deko
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 121
Deko is an unknown quantity at this point
Thumbs up Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Good luck Alex, see you tommorow around 12 ish.
Deko is offline  
Old 15-07-2008, 19:14   #11760
JackSon
Inactive
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Age: 44
Services: Freeview, BT Ultrafast Fibre 2
Posts: 330
JackSon is a splendid one to beholdJackSon is a splendid one to beholdJackSon is a splendid one to beholdJackSon is a splendid one to beholdJackSon is a splendid one to beholdJackSon is a splendid one to beholdJackSon is a splendid one to beholdJackSon is a splendid one to beholdJackSon is a splendid one to behold
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Good luck Alex - will grab the mp3 of the cast later, the live feed is lagging/stuttering something fierce. Am sure someone will be kind enough to link it once available
JackSon is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:16.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum