Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by Rob

Anyone else find it a bit odd that so many of the recent pages of this post are referring to a protest about BT, and yet this thread started about Virgin Media

I'd say its a question of priorities at present.

Virgin have been very silent about Webwise of late, there isn't much to debate until they take action.

BT on the other hand have exposed themselves, and how.

So in a sense, yes at present there isn't much to say about Virgin. But you can be certain if BT get away with this, Virgin will attempt the same.

Pete

[madslug]

Originally Posted by Rob

Anyone else find it a bit odd that so many of the recent pages of this post are referring to a protest about BT, and yet this thread started about Virgin Media

Can someone supply time, date and place info for the Virgin Media AGM?

If the BT protest does not assist in stopping the use of DPI systems for behavioural targeted advertising by the other ISPs, the protests are due to spread.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by madslug

Can someone supply time, date and place info for the Virgin Media AGM?

If the BT protest does not assist in stopping the use of DPI systems for behavioural targeted advertising by the other ISPs, the protests are due to spread.

Virgin are a Delaware corporation... perhaps the AGM is in the USA?

Investor information is here

[phpscott]

By looking at the time stamps of when posts are made, many of you are night owls, or up very late. Have any of you tried to get onto one of the talkback radio shows at night. I have tried but because I get up early after 30minutes on the phone on hold and starting to fall asleep I had to hang up. There are many hosts and listners that would have a right go about this and could lead to more publicity. Just a thought.

[madslug]

Originally Posted by phpscott

By looking at the time stamps of when posts are made, many of you are night owls, or up very late. Have any of you tried to get onto one of the talkback radio shows at night. I have tried but because I get up early after 30minutes on the phone on hold and starting to fall asleep I had to hang up. There are many hosts and listners that would have a right go about this and could lead to more publicity. Just a thought.

If 6 or more people who know what they are talking about coordinated this, it could be a goer. What concerns me is that one lone voice talking sense may then be drowned out by a dozen ignorant responses who turn the whole thing into a freak show of light entertainment.

[Are there interesting talkback shows late at night? - I am strictly BBC World Service in the evenings - Radio 5 leaves me cold]

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by Rob

Anyone else find it a bit odd that so many of the recent pages of this post are referring to a protest about BT, and yet this thread started about Virgin Media

And yes, I know that BT are the only ones who've actually implemented the technology, I know that if they do get away with it, others like Virgin Media could follow suit. I'm just getting the impression that this thread has somewhat derailed from it's original purpose. Indeed I suspect the vast majority of potential readers, who are not that in depth knowledgeable about IT (bear in mind this site has always been intended as a help site), will now steer a wide berth and miss the point completely as to why Phorm and Virgin Media would be bad news.

I think it is inevitable. If the thread stuck exclusively with Virgin Media - where would it go and what would it talk about? How long would it last? VM have done nothing, and the retraction/retrenchment that they have made has, I think been due to the deep doo doo that BT have got themselves into, and that VM have quite cannily, exploited to their commercial advantage.

It's very difficult to protest effectively about something an ISP are vaguely maybe thinking of exploring, perhaps, in the future. And which they remain almost totally silent about.

But with yhe BT angle, the anti-DPI protest has a gift which is almost too good to be true.

A large, high profile international comms company using it's UK ISP arm to conduct covert illegal trials - not just once but twice - and then threatening to conduct more trials, but getting caught out constantly about exactly when so they get delayed four months in a row...
Incompetent management unable to effectively implement the technology without it falling over and leaving fingerprints all over the internet and media.
Useless communication within the company and crass ineffectiveness in the communication between the company and their customers -- so that customers get lied to, misled and generally abused to the extent that civil action becomes a relatively simple evidential process.
Total lack of due diligence so that every legal pothole gets stumbled into - DPA, RIPA, PECR, CMA and regulators get flooded with complaints and issue statement after statement.
Total failure of the company to carry their staff with them so that significant documents get leaked.
Natural corporate tendency to lie, (arrogance exceeds prudence) so that contradictions can be easily exposed.
Public statements by the company that don't really NEED deconstruction because they are so obviously incompetent and evasive.

I think with a company like that taking the lead role in implementing Phorm's seedy snoop technology, it is not surprising that anti-DPI protests tend to contain a lot of focus on BT. Without BT there would simply be nothing of much public interest to talk about - the discussion would be all about Richard Clayton's technical report on what "might" happen and it would be almost impossible to get public and press interest.

No - you should get on your knees each night and thank God for BT and Emma Sanderson. They've done more for the anti-Phorm cause, than even Alex!!! Take all the BT related stuff out of this thread and there isn't much left. It's about BT because BT are not just an ISP, they run the major part of the network, and they are the inevitable "test bed" for the technology. And they were stupid enough or greedy enough to fall for the Phorm bait, while Virgin Media were canny enough to keep their cable pure and unsullied and wait on the side lines to see how things turned out, and which side to back, making sure they only backed the winner after the race was over. If Phorm fails, Virgin haven't done too badly, if it succeeds, they can join the bandwagon.

That's just my opinion as a BT customer. And a very very big thank you to you people here - you've been brilliant.

[SelfProtection]

[QUOTE=Rob;34599312]Anyone else find it a bit odd that so many of the recent pages of this post are referring to a protest about BT, and yet this thread started about Virgin Media

I'm still keeping a close eye on anything that might be happening On Virgin Media connections (via a friend).

I think we are just concentrating on the logic path needed to achieve the best result for both Virgin Media & BT Customers.

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

Virgin are a Delaware corporation... perhaps the AGM is in the USA?

Investor information is here

To Our Stockholders:
The annual meeting of stockholders of Virgin Media Inc. will be held at 10.15 a.m., local time, on
Wednesday, May 21, 2008, at the offices of Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP at 375 Park
Avenue, New York, New York 10152, 36th Floor, for the following purposes:

Looks like it already happened, and it is in the USA. ?

[jelv]

Originally Posted by Rob

Anyone else find it a bit odd that so many of the recent pages of this post are referring to a protest about BT, and yet this thread started about Virgin Media

And yes, I know that BT are the only ones who've actually implemented the technology, I know that if they do get away with it, others like Virgin Media could follow suit. I'm just getting the impression that this thread has somewhat derailed from it's original purpose. Indeed I suspect the vast majority of potential readers, who are not that in depth knowledgeable about IT (bear in mind this site has always been intended as a help site), will now steer a wide berth and miss the point completely as to why Phorm and Virgin Media would be bad news.

Virgin Media must still have a definite interest in implementing Webwise - why else would they allow Phorm to still have the following on their website?

Current partners include BT, TalkTalk and Virgin Media - companies representing approximately 70% of the UK broadband ISP market.

[Russ]

After much debate the CF team have decided it was time for this thread to close. It came to the end of its natural life a long time ago and recently has degenerated in to little more than arguing, flaming and inter-forum bitching. It's a shame that the irresponsible minority have spoiled it for others.

Whilst the issue of Phorn continues to be an issue for VM customers, this thread has served its purpose. However CF will continue to monitor and report on any new developments on the situation and posts will be made as and when.

If you feel you have new information about the Phorm situation please contact one of the team and we will act on it as appropriate.

[Russ]

Thread reopned.

[r1ch]

Thanks Russ.

[NewsreadeR]

[Admin Edit: Off-topic post deleted]

[Russ]

Originally Posted by NewsreadeR

You are on a fine line of being none independent, and I would suggest you reaffirm your intentions, so I don't waste my time, as well as others, visiting this thread in the future.

All you need to know is this thread will now stay open. This site always has been and always will be independant. If people choose the dispute that then that's unfortunate but I'm not going out of my way to prove anything.

[Graham M]

How are we non-independent, it wasn't closed because VM/BT/Aliens told us too, it was closed because it was getting out of hand, now if you want it to remain open, keep on topic please?

Thanks