Help setting up Networking Server

[Angry@VMedia]

Hi!
I know all I seem to do is post for help, but hey, nobody is perfect!

Right, now I have aquired a new PC, which I would like to use as my network server, current setup is as follows:
3 desktop PC's (including the new server)
2 laptop & 2 games consoles.
Now the current setup is each machine connects wirelessly through a wireless router then the router wired to the cable modem.
The new PC I want to be the network backup & print server, and if possible want the new server PC to share the internet connection to the other machines, which is the best way to go?
I have a few options, such as do I stick with Windows XP PRO on the server or should I go for Windows Home Server?

I have a few spare big hard drives that I could use to store the backups on, I am just confused on how I can setup the network connections, such as, if I went for the option to let the other machines connect to the internet through the server wirelessly, where would the wireless router fit into the equasion?

I am confused as I have never had the spare machine for a server or never needed to do it at previous work places as they already had their networks setup.

Also, I need the server locked down as securely as possible, but there may be occasions where I might need to access my network away from home, so I need to take this into consideration.

Please take pity on me, as I doubt I would be able to do this without any help, I have ideas but I would probably bodge it up somewhere along the line!

For a bit of background on myself: I have built up PC's for the last 12 years, and I would say I know more about PC's than most, but obviously I do not know it all!

So again, if anyone can help I would really appreciate it, as I am already confuzzled!

Thanks in advance!

[devonps]

Originally Posted by Angry@VMedia

Hi!
I know all I seem to do is post for help, but hey, nobody is perfect!

Right, now I have aquired a new PC, which I would like to use as my network server, current setup is as follows:
3 desktop PC's (including the new server)
2 laptop & 2 games consoles.
Now the current setup is each machine connects wirelessly through a wireless router then the router wired to the cable modem.
The new PC I want to be the network backup & print server, and if possible want the new server PC to share the internet connection to the other machines, which is the best way to go?
I have a few options, such as do I stick with Windows XP PRO on the server or should I go for Windows Home Server?

I have a few spare big hard drives that I could use to store the backups on, I am just confused on how I can setup the network connections, such as, if I went for the option to let the other machines connect to the internet through the server wirelessly, where would the wireless router fit into the equasion?

I am confused as I have never had the spare machine for a server or never needed to do it at previous work places as they already had their networks setup.

Also, I need the server locked down as securely as possible, but there may be occasions where I might need to access my network away from home, so I need to take this into consideration.

Please take pity on me, as I doubt I would be able to do this without any help, I have ideas but I would probably bodge it up somewhere along the line!

For a bit of background on myself: I have built up PC's for the last 12 years, and I would say I know more about PC's than most, but obviously I do not know it all!

So again, if anyone can help I would really appreciate it, as I am already confuzzled!

Thanks in advance!

Hi,

I have a couple of questions for you - that should you to remove some of the confused haze that surrounds you...

Originally Posted by Angry@VMedia

The new PC I want to be the network backup & print server, and if possible want the new server PC to share the internet connection to the other machines

This implies you want your new PC to be multi tasking, i.e. Network attached storage(NAS), print server and a DHCP server as well. Depending on your hardware specs ALL of these tasks are possible from one box/server.

I'm not sure why you want to take over the DHCP tasks, when your current wireless router is doing a good enough job.

Originally Posted by Angry@VMedia

...such as do I stick with Windows XP PRO on the server or should I go for Windows Home Server?

Have you considered purchasing a ready made solution for your network storage?

Also what about using a Linux flavour to satisfy your needs, e.g. Ubuntu - server edition 8.04LTS

Originally Posted by Angry@VMedia

...I am just confused on how I can setup the network connections

This can be confusing at times, I suggest you look into providing a static IP address for your NAS.

Originally Posted by Angry@VMedia

I need the server locked down as securely as possible

Totally agree with your statement and you should start with this level of security from the beginning. One thing I've found that helped me was to draw a diagram of the different desktops, server, routers, hubs & modem and to connect them all via a line. I also write down the different IP addresses(internal and external) that I want to be assigned to each of them.

Originally Posted by Angry@VMedia

...but there may be occasions where I might need to access my network away from home

For this you will need to use port forwarding. This can be achieved by logging onto your router's config page and completing the questions it asks. But you can't really do this until you have identified the internal IP addresses for each of your machines, i.e. your NAS box REALLY SHOULD have a static IP.

Originally Posted by Angry@VMedia

...I have built up PC's for the last 12 years, and I would say I know more about PC's than most

One thing you will learn is that putting together the hardware & software to enable a PC to function, bears very little relevance to networking - this is something I've learnt the hard way!

Finally, please take my post as it was intended - good natured, honest and trying to be helpful.

You're at a critical point in constructing your home network, i.e. trying to decide what you want to happen, e.g. NAS, print server, DHCP. Take your time and document each step - that way if you have to flatten anything you can maybe rebuild slightly quicker next time.

Steve.

[Angry@VMedia]

devonps
Wow thanks for your reply! It really does seem that it shows I am a complete noob at networking!

If I may, I would like to address some of your questions, for myself as well as you and others!

This implies you want your new PC to be multi tasking, i.e. Network attached storage(NAS), print server and a DHCP server as well. Depending on your hardware specs ALL of these tasks are possible from one box/server.

I'm not sure why you want to take over the DHCP tasks, when your current wireless router is doing a good enough job.

The reason I suggested this is that I have noticed from other professional network setups is that there has always been a "master PC" that other PC's connect to the internet through and this machine controls the access for other pc's that are on the network, granted they have always been connected via a wired hub instead of wireless, so this is why I said this, but if all machines going through the router are ok, then this is good enough for me!

Have you considered purchasing a ready made solution for your network storage?

Also what about using a Linux flavour to satisfy your needs, e.g. Ubuntu - server edition 8.04LTS

As I am on a really tight budget (currently unemployed due to back injury) I am only on benefits at the moment, and I have a choice of WindowsXP, Windows Server 2003 or Windows Home Server(which is basically Windows Server 2003 with extras for home networking) and I'm affraid I know diddly squat about Linux or ubuntu, and I feel that Windows is for me (certainly not dissing Lunux, but I have been told it takes a lot to 'get into' and I wouldnt know where to begin with that!)

This can be confusing at times, I suggest you look into providing a static IP address for your NAS.

Would this work with my Virgin Broadband? I was under the impression that being as the cable modem is DHCP that I had to use it throughout the network? (sorry, told you I'm new to this!)

I will knock up a quick diagram of the layout of the house and position of everything, and hopefully it will help to understand better!

Thanks awefully again devonps, you have really given me things to think about!


EDIT: added a basic, modest diagram, hope it will help clearer the picture somewhat!

[devonps]

The Ubuntu server (8.04) is both free and the iso image that you download contains the following server options: LAMP, Mail, DNS, DHCP, Fileserver, OpenSSH and any or all can be installed on your machine.

I recently built a NAS box using UBUNTU, after the hardware build (and soak testing of course) the software took less than 30 minutes to complete a base installation and this included formatting of a 500gb samsung sata drive and the necessary O/S & application updates from the web.

Apart from defining a user & password (note: not root) the only other choices I made were:

a) How did I want to partiton the disk - I choose default (entire disk with sensible partitions)

b) Which servers(applications) do I want to install - and their associated user ids & passwords.

If you have a clean box & are on a tight budget why not give Ubuntu a try, after all you can always wipe the hard drive!

I appreciate your lack of knowledge about Linux in general, but Linux is not all about editing config files via the command line.

I've just thought of a final questions for you...do you expect your NAS box to have a keyboard, monitor & mouse attached to it when it's running?

BTW: This is a trick question, once setup servers don't need any of these attachments - you should be able to access your server remotely, ie via Telnet or putty. Of course it's your server so you can have a gui if you want - but all it will do is take up precious CPU cycles & disk storage.

Onto your next question....

Yes it would work in combination with your Virgin broadband modem & your router. As your VM modem will have been assigned an "external" IP address by VM. This address will be used by the web to see your VM modem and your router - so that the two devices can communicate with each other.

Now your router is called that becuase that's one of the things it can do, i.e. route IP based traffic. It can also "assign" internal IP addresses, i.e. those that start with 192. or 10. In other words it acts as a DHCP server and manages everything for you. Hence my earlier comment about why you would want to take this function away from a piece of hardware that does the job for you.

Good Luck.

See attached diagram for my current home network, I've missed off my "work" setup - but if you construct the diagram in this fashion it will help you visualise where potential problems could be.

[Angry@VMedia]

Hi devonps!

TBH, i would rather have a GUI such as windows, as I know this os like the back of my hand(s) inside out and all that nonsense!
Also another choice of using Windows is that I have some software that is only made for windows to monitor other pc's (ie active PIP, so I can see what people are doing just as if I was sat next to them as it would help doing this than keep running backwards & forwards doing this on 1 pc, then running back to the server etc) and yes, I will be having KMV attatched to it as I will also use this server as my primary downloading machine!

I am not at all concerned about email serving, as every pc has its own email client running in the background that downloads email as it arrives, so this is 1 less worry for me!

Concerning the assigned IP addresses, I did once try this on an old Linksys router, with disappointing results (I manually set the IP ranges in the router setup, but when trying to use an assigned address on the PC, wireless would come up as if it was connected, but thats as far as it went, I couldnt even ping the router, so I gave that up as a bad idea and reverted to DHCP! Being as the server will be running 27/7 this IP address would stay the same, and i am not too bothered about IP's to be honnest, as could I not just use the machine names to access the computers on the network?

Really sorry, but this is really over my head, and with only having 3 hrs sleep, cant get my head into it!

Thanks for your time though, you have definately helped and I will take it all onboard!

And to be quite honnest, if I cannot get this stupid wireless router to behave, im gonna take it back & just buy a wired hub and be done with wireless! far too much hastle for me

[devonps]

Hey no problem at all - remember it's your server :o)

If you want more help you can always PM me.

[Dai]

As far as the DHCP aspect is concerned, you can mix and match quite successfully. Let me give you an example to make it clearer. Let's assume your router DHCP server is handing out IP addresses from the range 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.255
If you set a NAS box (or any other PC) to a fixed IP *within* that range, and providing that IP is not in use already then the router should accept it and allow the connection.
I have a home network running a mix of fixed and dynamic IPs, which works perfectly through my D-Link router.

HTH.

[popper]

theres plenty of time to work this out and learn as you go, wireless isnt a problem, its just another way to connect all the LAN,the trick is not to over complicate these things, its all just connecting one bit of kit to the next after all, sure there are tech names and procedures to get through and learn.

but its still basicly , from a hardware POV...,this kit connects to that kit, and this single master bit of kit takes the LAN (local Area Network)traffic, and passes it over there to the WAN (Wide Area Network, i.e your Broadband connection in this case) part, and back in again.

thats being done by your wireless router connected to the LAN side of the CM right now, the WAN part being the VM cable side, or that new 1 gig wired router you buy later, all the other server(s), (and theres a problem, server means many things, need to be clear on the function etc... i can point you to a *one line rebol file server for instance, that you might install on one of the 3rd partys linux wireless router firmwares to serve files directly off the USB stick attached to it), are on the inside LAN.

for NAS (Network Attached [i.e fileServer] Storage) i find FreeNAS so simple and easy to use for just about any Home purpose....download it, burn it,boot it,use it....its a fully working liveCD so you can be up and running in minutes to test it on that spare PC, before you take this anywere ferther...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeNAS

"...
"Welcome to FreeNAS FreeNAS is a free NAS (Network-Attached Storage) server, supporting: CIFS (samba), FTP, NFS, AFP, RSYNC, iSCSI protocols, S.M.A.R.T., local user authentication, Software RAID (0,1,5) with a Full WEB configuration interface. FreeNAS takes less than 32MB once installed on Compact Flash, hard drive or USB key.

The minimal FreeBSD distribution, Web interface, PHP scripts and documentation are based on M0n0wall. "
"

FreeNAS's ISCSI is fun to play with, it makes that NAS installed HD look like it is really attached to your PC locally and it IS by far the fastest way to use that Ethernet cable over cheap 1gigbit routers/Switch....

rememer to keep it simple, the LAN side data does not go over the WAN or VM cable part, thats the sole job of the connected WAN/LAN MASTER device, at the moment thats your wireless router.

VM/BT/WiMax/whatever-ISP-in<===>CableModem<===>Master
<=x->whatever connects these LAN devices to the Master device

freeNAS
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/se...archid=2404167

for ISCSI on windows to use that freeNAS your going to need
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/19...l#post34467233
the Free MS iSCSI initiator driver installed on your windows machines BTW...

*http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...er-webserver.r
Purpose: {Webserver serving files from the current directory.}
One-liner-length: 308
Author: "Cal Dixon"

[Angry@VMedia]

Hi popper!
I guess I dont know as much as I thought I did!
When I mean a server (for my use in this case) is to host (store) everything so I dont need duplicate copies strewn across multiple PC's (such as the programmes, utilities, music, games & pictures that my pc's have) also, I would like a central pc that will handle the print requests of all the computers (instead of having to move said printer to each pc whenever somebody wants to print) and also a central location that will store multiple PC backups (and if possible have the backup software on this 'server' only, and will backup each PC with my specifics). I also need this central (does this word fit better than server as I feel it does as it describes it perfectly - a central device that serves the other PC's) PC to stream music & video to the other PC's and games console that are in my home, as I have said, email as not a problem and does not need to be stored in 1 single location.

Actually, I have just thought of another issue, with the streaming video & music, I guess it would make more sence for a wired network, as there would be more bandwidth availible for other users, say if a user wanted to browse the internet while I was streaming, or if the central PC was in the process of a backup / restore job.

I now have a bit more time to think about it all (as the spare box room where I want it all situated is crammed full with crud, old boxes & crimbo decorations mainly) and so this will be sorted out at the weekend when everyone is around to lend a hand! Also going to be a bit of a pain as there is no electrical outlets in there due to it being a cupboard, so will have to drill a few holes to get an extension lead & the modem coax through to it, so I do have a bit more time to take it all in a bit!

And popper, I will read your info more closely later on when the house is quiet & I can concentrate more - thanks awefully for the trouble you have gone to with the information!

[popper]

ill probably add more later but
"Actually, I have just thought of another issue, with the streaming video & music, I guess it would make more sence for a wired network, as there would be more bandwidth availible for other users, say if a user wanted to browse the internet while I was streaming,..."

i happen to have made a post just about that saving your Bandwidth and streaming too (but some didnt like it ) several actually, one for security streaming and one for extending wireless reach....


while its always good to use fast wired ethernet were you can ,1 gig routers/switchs on some 11n, and pure wired routers being reasonably cheap now, and 1 gig switchs and PCi cards almost pennys, so use them were you can.

but wireless 11n and later combined 11n/wimax units is fine too, the trick is Multicasting single video streams that any LAN PC can then tune into if you like, and so easly have say 4 people in different rooms watching that same Multicast DVD at the same time on their LAN connected kit, while others are doing their browsing or whatever....

just read the whole of that http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/87...l#post34592432 and replace any IPwebcam reference with your Mpeg2 or whatever video type DVD/divX/Xvid/AVC etc you want to stream to all the LAN with VLC ....or even to that community wireless LAN you didnt think to setup to play your mates next door/over the road at TF2 etc

remember wireless is good,AVC encoded/streamed Video is Good, and small community wired and wireless LAN networks to take the strain off your VM STM'ed connection is also good, got to think simple and BIGGER....