Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[lardycake]

Originally Posted by warescouse

Little Rant.

Now that things have quietened down a little since this afternoon I would like to make an observation. The Gentleman or Lady who seemed to be just provoking a merry-go-round of comments...

...I think we should be ready for this type of behaviour and treat it a bit more wisely. ...

...The best way to deal with your perceived enemy is to treat it with respect...

Agree... but I would go further just ignore them Don't respond or reply to such obvious provocation. There have been several attempts at this sort of thing over at the BadPhorm forum.

It is a different matter when a pro phorm poster puts forward a serious argument (ie: Backbeak(??? - the guy from Finland - I can't find the posts because they are now lost in a sea of dross) Yesterday he started out pro phorm but was converted to an anti phorm position when presented with the facts)

Ignore trolls it is the only way.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

I must say, before this goes any further, I don't believe there are any grounds for linking that poor lady with Phorm. A search for her name and Phorm in Google brings back a wholly misleading search result, which actually refers to Virasb Vahidi. TBH I'd recommend you delete posts which include her name (unless there is a link I don't know about).

On the other hand, I do think there is a reason to finnish with the Hamsterman (Hamsterwoman?), but tbh I'd prefer we get back on with the urgent business of leaving scorched earth beneath Phorm.

Done. Cheers.

---------- Post added at 00:20 ---------- Previous post was at 00:15 ----------

Originally Posted by lardycake

Agree... but I would go further just ignore them Don't respond or reply to such obvious provocation. There have been several attempts at this sort of thing over at the BadPhorm forum.

It is a different matter when a pro phorm poster puts forward a serious argument (ie: Backbeak(??? - the guy from Finland - I can't find the posts because they are now lost in a sea of dross) Yesterday he started out pro phorm but was converted to an anti phorm position when presented with the facts)

Ignore trolls it is the only way.

Decide then ignore, but my sentiments entirely.

(Blackbeak) They were a good exchange of posts and its a pity we lost them in the Dross.

Seems we are very popular with the Finland posters though! Coincidence???

[Ravenheart]

I've just listened to the GRC Security Now! podcast, what a solid and informed item stating that Phorm is by far the worst of all these advertising leeches, the transcript of the episode also contains some wonderful quotes that could be used in the fight against Phorm if the guys over at GRC would let us.

I'm looking forward to #151 when they're going into more detail on the issue.

Well worth a listen, or have a look at the transcript.

The guys @ GRC

[warescouse]

But what if a senior person at Phorm was today, hypothetically, speaking to a senior representative from the EEC that was visiting and that person happened to be advocating that the anti-phorm crowd are a bunch of nutters and didn't know what they were talking about.

Imagine "Here, lets browse to the forum now that was referenced in the email you received and lets see what's going on".
Snapshot- This afternoon.

This is my point.

But
I totally agree with the great idea about the lookup index but I honestly don't see it happening. I think once and every couple of days we should post some sort of reference material that is added to over time so that a new reader to the forum can, in a nutshell, grasp what our main points are. These should include links to the better sites like your own and all obvious others.

Edit - I think the post I was responding to must have been deleted but the gist still applies to what I previously said.

[Phormic Acid]

Originally Posted by warescouse

Anybody who at that moment in time was to go to this forum and make some sort of informed decision on the Phorm issue and evaluate its its critics would not have perceived a good impression of the standard of the anti phorm debate that is normally present here.

It’s unfortunate that we only have one thread. We really need a Behavioural Targeting sub-forum, then the more tangential posts can be moved out to separate threads. I know there’s a Webwise Apathy thread, but no-one can be bothered to post on it.

[Florence]

Maybe later today I could look through the thread and pick out pagers of important info and make a post linking to thje best so some can get a quick update without all the stuff that was done today.

[BadPhormula]

Originally Posted by warescouse

But what if a senior person at Phorm was today, hypothetically, speaking to a senior representative from the EEC that was visiting and that person happened to be advocating that the anti-phorm crowd are a bunch of nutters and didn't know what they were talking about.

Imagine "Here, lets browse to the forum now that was referenced in the email you received and lets see what's going on".
Snapshot- This afternoon.

This is my point.

I take your point but you shouldn't worry so much about a handful of unruly disjointed posts. If someone is interested in the debate they will pick up the jist of the thread by closer scrutiny. Anyone that can't discriminate the chaff from the wheat in an important subject discussion shouldn't really be in a position to make an informed judgement about the subjects context.

But
I totally agree with the great idea about the lookup index but I honestly don't see it happening. I think once and every couple of days we should post some sort of reference material that is added to over time so that a new reader to the forum can, in a nutshell, grasp what our main points are. These should include links to the better sites like your own and all obvious others.

I think the anti-phorm debate will take on some structure over the next few months and certainly over the years. People in Britain are just starting to wake up to this important privacy question -- they will want answers. Forums like these are the catalyst for greater public awareness so don't be disheartened when an idiot spoiler like HamsterWheel comes along to shanghai the event.


p.s. The Administrator saw fit to delete my post and issue me with warnings, nice. Looks like WobblyWheel will have to PM me if he wants to know what I wrote about him

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by BadPhormula

I take your point but you shouldn't worry so much about a handful of unruly disjointed posts. If someone is interested in the debate they will pick up the jist of the thread by closer scrutiny. Anyone that can't discriminate the chaff from the wheat in an important subject discussion shouldn't really be in a position to make an informed judgement about the subjects context.





I think the anti-phorm debate will take on some structure over the next few months and certainly over the years. People in Britain are just starting to wake up to this important privacy question -- they will want answers. Forums like these are the catalyst for greater public awareness so don't be disheartened when an idiot spoiler like HamsterWheel comes along to shanghai the event.


p.s. The Administrator saw fit to delete my post and issue me with warnings, nice.

I didn't see much wrong with it to be quite honest but I was quickly scan reading it and picking out the relevant arguments. (And I have just finished a bottle of wine )

[mark777]

Don't forget that this thread sits somewhere in the middle, between the BT thread and BadPhorm, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Badphorm is open to anyone and is categorised. Having many threads mean you often have to hunt for current information, but if you want to find information about a specific issue, it's easier.

BT forum is one thread, but not everybody can post there.

The strength of this thread is that it is easy to find the latest information and anyone can post here. It's a melting-pot of ideas and news.

It's strengths are also it's weaknesses. It's hard to find things posted in the past and anyone can post here.

If all can post here and it is likely to be looked at by many people very soon, that makes it a target for the spoilers (paid for or otherwise).

Just ignore them.

[Privacy_Matters]

Originally Posted by mark777

Don't forget that this thread sits somewhere in the middle, between the BT thread and BadPhorm, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Badphorm is open to anyone and is categorised. Having many threads mean you often have to hunt for current information, but if you want to find information about a specific issue, it's easier.

BT forum is one thread, but not everybody can post there.

The strength of this thread is that it is easy to find the latest information and anyone can post here. It's a melting-pot of ideas and news.

It's strengths are also it's weaknesses. It's hard to find things posted in the past and anyone can post here.

If all can post here and it is likely to be looked at by many people very soon, that makes it a target for the spoilers (paid for or otherwise).

Just ignore them.

Well said

[serial]

Originally Posted by mark777

Don't forget that this thread sits somewhere in the middle, between the BT thread and BadPhorm, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Maybe posters like HamsterWheel can be pointed to BadPhorm where it's easier to get up to speed. This will prevent this thread being "polluted". Abusive posters are also limited to individual threads.

HamsterWheel is perma banned from BadPhorm for conduct that was totally abusive and disgraceful.

[mark777]

I'm quoting myself here, from a few weeks back.

I believe BT have about 3 million users, so to sign up 10,000 is 1 in 300 of the customer base. If they do it on a single exchange and assuming the anti-phormites are randomly spread amongst the user base, the odds are the same.

In an ideal world, they would have to ask 300 people to get 1 to sign up, but that probably won't be the case. The chances are we won't be able to get anyone inside the trial unfortunately. I hope i'm wrong.

One obvious thing to do to increase the chances would be to get online early in the morning of the first day of the trial. Try requesting a new IP etc.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

Given that the implementation of phorm is likely to have changed considerably since Dr Clayton's paper, we really do need to get people inside the trial so the tech talent can analyse. Otherwise we will be blundering in the dark.

Could we get a checklist together and splash it round the web?

How to increase your chances of being included in the trial and what to do if you are.

I don't know enough to do this or what the tech bods might want. Please contribute as it could be important.

EDIT : I found this of mine, also from the past.

1) What page were you expecting when the invitation popped up? Was it your
home-page, if so, could you give the URL of your home page? Did it pop up as
soon as you opened your browser?

2) Did the invitation page have a URL? If so, what was it? You may be able to
get a URL for a page by right clicking on it and selecting 'properties'. Make a
note of it.

3) Please take a screen dump of the invitation page (CTL-Print Screen).
Paste it into a word (or wordpad or ??? document)

4) Please follow any links to further information and paste screen dumps into
the word document. If there is a URL, please note it.

5) Please follow any other links and do the same.

6) Please note your IP number and host by following this link

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/mi...?do=connection

Add this screen dump to your word document.

7) In windows, go to start menu and select Run. Enter cmd in the box. Click OK.
You should have a black window pop up. Type in :-

tracert bbc.co.uk

and press enter. You will see rows of data appear.

Highlight the rows with you mouse and press enter. Copy the contents of the
clipboard into your word document.

8) Go back to the trial invitation and opt-in (if you are willing).

9) Repeat step (7).

10) Browse a few pages. Visit cable forum!

11) Repeat step (7). Save your word document.

12) Register on cable forum and PM one of the following users xxxx to let them know you are in the trial and have information about the sign-up process.

Please refine, i'm not a network bod.

Originally Posted by mark777

Don't forget that this thread sits somewhere in the middle, between the BT thread and BadPhorm, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Badphorm is open to anyone and is categorised. Having many threads mean you often have to hunt for current information, but if you want to find information about a specific issue, it's easier.

BT forum is one thread, but not everybody can post there.

The strength of this thread is that it is easy to find the latest information and anyone can post here. It's a melting-pot of ideas and news.

It's strengths are also it's weaknesses. It's hard to find things posted in the past and anyone can post here.

If all can post here and it is likely to be looked at by many people very soon, that makes it a target for the spoilers (paid for or otherwise).

Just ignore them.

Good advice all round..

Let's focus on the discussion element of Phorm and not one or two particular posters trying to spoil it for others. If they have a good argument to give - lets hear it but, insults and personal remarks should be left in the playground.

[popper]

Originally Posted by vicz

Looks like we are having a 'Groundhog Day' moment http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...-page-193.html

Probably my fault, sorry

NO need to be sorry Vicz, a groundhog day at the speed this thread grows is a good thing now and then.

its that groundhog day type stuff , that stops the below the radar Experion CRA's using DPI, and collecting and collateing more data for your credit file, and the Orange wireless mobile datastreams being DPI'ed being forgotten, not to mention those other DPI firms in that security update that we dont cover here as yet....they almost all come from the old renamed spyware/adware companies, keep them in your sights and update the thread when you find the linked information etc.

there are masses of new people reading the thread and getting inPhormed every day, if you remember something of merit from way back, and on re-reading it you can add the latest known information to it, then thats a good thing.

all you anonymous guests, feel free to sign up and post your thoughts as you start your page one reading, we need you, you make every one of us Stronger when you act.

dont just wait for a Pro-Phorm person (although the Eliza/Bob Bot a few weeks ago was entertaining )to post and force you into action.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by mark777

I'm quoting myself here, from a few weeks back.



Given that the implementation of phorm is likely to have changed considerably since Dr Clayton's paper, we really do need to get people inside the trial so the tech talent can analyse. Otherwise we will be blundering in the dark.

If phorm has changed a lot then surely it will need to be reinvestigated since due to the type of inviasion on privacy, the actual chance of something personal getting out into the WWW is easier once phorm is implemented.

One thing to remember if you do decide to change ISP due to Phorm is to be sure they ISP you choose is not going to implement phorm in the future and isn't on BT manages 21cn.

Entanet ISPs will not be phormed since Entanet are not happy to risk customers privacy or trust for a few gold coins. Zen is another since a leaked document showed that Phorm could be implemented on the managed 21cn they have changed plans and are looking at other ways they might even do more LLU they already have a few exchanges LLU'ed but in Rochdale. Manchester.