Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[DJTekno]

So, HamsterWheel, playing the man and not the ball eh? Are you Sir Humphrey Appleby in disguise?

Now, crawl back from under whichever stone you appeared from - there's a good little chap.

[Wild Oscar]

On the subject of ads and Phorms abuse of them ..

The problem for newspapers is that a story headlined 'Two Dead in Baghdad' isn't very product-friendly" said Kent Ertugrul, chief executive of Phorm, a behavioral targeting company working with British newspapers. "But if you know who is looking at the page, that's where the opportunity is.

Can you really trust a company whose boss comes out with garbage like this?

[smcicr]

Wow - I take it all back - I'm completely convinced - there was nearly an actual answer in that lot.

I am very much enjoying:

"BECAUSE NO-ONE HAS PROVED THAT IT IS NOT" - not only is that the sort of thing i'd be disappointed in if i heard it on a playground but it ignores the fact that several people have done exactly that. It's a 'twofor' - embarrasingly constructed AND incorrect. Bargain.

"THESE ARE ORGANISATIONS WHOSE PURPOSE IS TO SAY NO TO EVERYTHING, SO OF COURSE THEY WILL BE ANTI-EVERYTHING, THE LUDDITES." - and you expect to be taken seriously because?

"BECAUSE THEY ARE WIMPS WHO WILL SOON ADOPT ONCE THE DOSH ROLLS IN TO BT ETC." - i know, i know - it's the same point as above but it's such a big point that i felt it was worth making twice...

oh and it also happens to lead nicely into...

"THEY ARE ENTITLED TO DO WHAT THEY WANT - THE TECH IS EVOLVING" - of course they are, what confuses me is why they would willingly choose to dramatically reduce the potential amount of 'DOSH' they will be receiving by making these changes - unless of course there is something inherently problematic with the way that the system was originally set up. Which, as someone in a wheel will hopefully appreciate, brings us back in a nice big circle to the whole legality issue...

"THAT WILL BE COMMERCIALLY CONFIDENTIAL, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE !" - the irony has not escaped me (whether you intended it or not) but I'm presuming this is a guess on your part - why would they keep something like that back? it simply doesn't make sense - all Phorm's legal problems can be solved by publishing the legal advice they got and they refuse to do so? Sorry, doesn't track. At all.

I'd go through the rest of your points but it's not really serving any purpose to do so.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

Apparently they paid for the space, then put adverts for charities on the bits they didn't use for Phorm, so the charities got some free adverts.
Which is apparently why Alex was happy to withdraw his accusations.

So far from stealing ads from charities, they bought them some.

No. Sorry, won't let you off the hook there.

They bought a charity advertising campaign, then in their own words replaced the 'default' charity ads for Oxfam, Make Trade Fair or SOS Childrens Villages with their contextual ads (see bottom page 7/52).

So adverts that would have been shown, adverts that might have elicited donations of money to feed STARVING CHILDREN were replaced by adverts for WEIGHT WATCHERS.



So tell me all about your concern for starving children while you count your shares.

[oblonsky]

Hamster, I actually agree with many of your points, which has lead to a blazing row with Alex many pages back, but I have been campaigning against Phorm and still am.

Why? Because any third party which is allowed to plug proprietary information gathering equipment directly into an ISP sets a really dangerous precedent. We only have Phorm’s word over what they actually do, it’s too complex to regulate.

Once Phorm get in, and I trust a lot of what Phorm say about privacy, then along will come NebuAd and all the other data rapers. Each will be under increasing pressure to compete with the features of one another, some will perhaps only pay lip-service to privacy issues in a bid to get ahead.

I repeat – who will regulate all these wannabe data pimps? Who will inspect 10 or 20 proprietary machines with constant software updates installed in ISP data centres throughout the UK? What about data security?

What about the fact that Phorm mangles your HTTP stream and threatens to break some application which rely on a direct answer to HTTP GET, not THREE REDIRECTS?!

Whilst some if not all of the legal arguments against Phorm are untested, one stands out: RIPA.

As a nation we either choose to respect the sanctity of personal communications or not. There’s no in-between. There can’t be, because the sector is too complex to regulate.

Your ISP carries personal communications, as a country we either respect that, in which case we don’t allow advertisers to tap the communications in exactly the same way that phone conversations and private mail is respected, or we allow the advertisers in.

[BetBlowWhistler]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

BetBlowWhistler - that's not me on Digg.
I guess it's someone's attempt at a joke.

Fair enough, but I did notice you selling shares though..

PHRM Phorm Reg-s HamsterWheel 21/05/07 1720.00p 1050p 0 01/01/0001 00:00:00 1050p -39.0% SOLD 30/05/07 2175.00p 26.5% £10,000 £12,537 £2,537

Glad to see you made a profit Seriously, I don't give a stuff about Phorm really, I just want to make sure that people are informed of what the technology does (if that's possible) what it does and have the option of not having it anywhere near them.

The only serious answer is to drop your ISP if they implement this. I noticed from one of your postings that you weren't overly happy about the Big Brother connotations of the technology either, but that you were more than happy to have it for more relevant adverts.

Well, that's fine, you have made an informed decision. Now let's extend that to all those poor saps who were spied on for profit, aka BT customers.

[edit - I know I'm glossing over the web site copyright aspect here a bit]

[SelfProtection]

Something else to clear up, does the Profiler only Profile on Port 80?

If this is the case then Web Servers can alter the Main Web Page to direct all other parts of the site to another Port.
Typically say 443 or 8080, 443 because although this is normally used for SSL there is no reason not to use it for non SSL as well.

A small change to every referenced Web Page "http://website:443" would achieve this.

[Privacy_Matters]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

Apparently they paid for the space, then put adverts for charities on the bits they didn't use for Phorm, so the charities got some free adverts.
Which is apparently why Alex was happy to withdraw his accusations.

So far from stealing ads from charities, they bought them some.

I'm sure Alex will correct me if I am wrong.

Firstly - this chat is nothing to do with Alex, and if you continue to reference Alex I will recommend that he files a suit against you for Defam and Slander. Its you and I homie!!

Secondly, looking at the workings, as described by BT, it appears that the advertising space was bought by Phorm to replace the Charities ads.

This was no doubt a vain attempt to gain public trust, as they would be seen to be working with Charities - but I can assure you THIS IS NOT working with Charities.

The point of a Charity is to give; not to take. If the description BT have given is correct, then Phorm approached the Charities with a Commercial Offer, which is NOT CHARITABLE - it is business.

If they wanted to appear to be CHARITABLE, they should have donated to the Charity; bought space from other advertisers - and then advertised the Charities.

@BT and Phorm: This is based on your description. If the interpretation is incorrect, it is due to your incompentance when writing, and subsequently allowing the leak of the report. YOUR OWN RESPONSIBLITY - YOUR OWN FALIBILTY - YOUR PROBLEM. TRY SUE ME...

(B4 complaint: Homie is reference to Homeboy - USA Slang term)

[MovedGoalPosts]

The IP being used by any poster here is not something for public announcement. The poster can declare it if they wish, but the CF Team will not. We only use it for moderation purposes.

I would remind people again that we do not take kindly to flaming and abuse of forum users or indeed insulting and derogatory remarks made about anyone. I know many of you feel strongly about Phorm. That is no reason to jump down the throat of anyone who comes here to defend it. Debate the posts made and demonstrate what is wrong with the posts, but don't start slinging mud.

[HamsterWheel]

So hammy once again are you willing to have phorm/webwise on your ISP account ?

Will you opt-in to it.

Yup - I'll be happy to opt in.

Why ?

Take this site - www.autoblog.com One I look at frequently. The ads are always for women's dresses, so a waste of time sticking them in front of me and the site would make a lot more dosh if it served up targeted ads. So it could invest in more content.

That's what the next phase of the internet is all about - monetising good content. Phorm enables this to happen.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

Apparently they paid for the space, then put adverts for charities on the bits they didn't use for Phorm, so the charities got some free adverts.
Which is apparently why Alex was happy to withdraw his accusations.

So far from stealing ads from charities, they bought them some.

I'm sure Alex will correct me if I am wrong.

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

BetBlowWhistler - that's not me on Digg.
I guess it's someone's attempt at a joke.

Personally I do believe you are an investor in Phorm, but I suspect you also answer to the name of one of the Phorm's management team.

Possibly even Kent himself! If you were him you would be telling no untruths in this case, Kent has invested quite a lot of money in Phorm! (PS the shares have dropped enormously in the last couple of months).

You do seem to have all the Phorm smoke and Mirror spin 'off to pat' as we would say. We will have the last laugh though!

[HamsterWheel]

Personally I do believe you are an investor in Phorm, but I suspect you also answer to the name of one of the Phorm's management team.

I've said I'm not from phorm - only connection is as a shareholder.
If you wish to believe otherwise there's not a lot I can do about it.

[Wildie]

better get your self a better ad remover most browsers have that option just turn it on or plug it in and them dresses will vanish.
btw phorm going live we jumping ship to a none phorm isp, bt will lose out on our monthly fees for isp, vision, and fusion and losing a fon access point in a village so more money lost, and no ads served no profile sold all must add up to a loss.

[vicz]

Originally Posted by HamsterWheel

I've said I'm not from phorm - only connection is as a shareholder.
If you wish to believe otherwise there's not a lot I can do about it.

Oh a bleedin scouser, might have guessed

A Foolish Interview with HamsterWheel


The Fool: Make a confession.
HamsterWheel: Not without a solicitor, once bitten...
The Fool: If you had enough money so you need not work anymore, what would you do all day, and would you be truely happy?
HamsterWheel: I do have enough, but want more to get a better way of doing nowt all day long
The Fool: Your most heroic moment in life?
HamsterWheel: Resuscitating someone on a glacier in Patagonia. Ingrate bit me whilst I was retrieving his swallowed tongue...
The Fool: If you could change one thing about your workplace, corporate culture, or family life, what would it be?
HamsterWheel: Lucky enough to work with a fabulous piratical bunch of buccaneering entrepreneurs, no changes needed at work or at home.
The Fool: What's been your best investment to date and how did you discover it?
HamsterWheel: SAYE scheme where I used to work - 8 bagger on £15k with no tax and no risk ;-)
The Fool: List some of your favourite websites, with running commentary where appropriate. (Please provide the URLs, too.)
HamsterWheel: Boring question
The Fool: If you would like to list the companies in which you hold shares, do it here. If not just say no.
HamsterWheel: List would be incomplete so no point
The Fool: What are your three favourite words?
HamsterWheel: WON it FIVE TIMES

[HamsterWheel]

I see you're all searching all over the place for info on me.
privacy my ar5e !!


By the way, those share "purchases" that were posted. They are not purchases at all, simply guesses in a share price movement competition board.