Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

1.) Phorm helps the internet community by making niche sites previous thought of as unattractive to advertisers attractive not because of their content but because of their visitors

Actually, Google already does this.

2.) Phorm protects privacy because they do not store history data

Debatable. They *say* they don't, but if the system didn't store any data about you, it would be unable to profile you.

3.) Phorm offer a real choise whereas other advertisers who use java and the like to allow cross domain transfer of information do it all behimnd the scenes without informing users or giving a choise. Phorm offer a central off switch

Other advertisers (presuming this is another Phorm attack on Google) do a lot of their tracking in the browser (before you say I have been sucked in again, this is based on statements issued by Phorm's PR). This means that even if you don't trust google not to track you when they say they aren't, you can block them easily (just disable Javascript, or set up something to filter the code they use).

Phorm offers no such option. If they say they are not tracking us, they may or may not be. We have no real way of checking if they are, and no way of stopping them.

4.) Phorm will actuall cause less advertising and an increase in the advertising value of real estate

If you believe that increasing the value of advertising will reduce the amount of advertising you clearly are niaive. Higher value advertising will result in more, not less. Greed is part of Human Nature and if a site thinks they can get more money by having more advertising, they will.

5.) Phorm will help small companies promote themselves in a cost effective manor

No more so than Google.

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

1.) Phorm offer a central off switch

The primary concern for all here is that although Phorm say you can turn it off, because we've had no information to the contrary, turning off the adverts is no guarantee that we will avoid being profiled by the DPI kit.

Have you anything new to add which would allay those fears?

[icsys]

1.) Phorm helps the internet community by making niche sites previous thought of as unattractive to advertisers attractive not because of their content but because of their visitors
if they were previosly unattractive then they will continue to be unattractive.
2.) Phorm protects privacy because they do not store history data
How are they able to serve ads based on what you were viewing three days ago then?
3.) Phorm offer a real choise whereas other advertisers who use java and the like to allow cross domain transfer of information do it all behimnd the scenes without informing users or giving a choise. Phorm offer a central off switch
If the choice is to be intercepted and profiled... I'll give it a miss thanks. Other advertisers don't leech at the ISP
4.) Phorm will actuall cause less advertising and an increase in the advertising value of real estate
Unproven so we will have to wait and see... but then I won't actually see because I won't take part in it
5.) Phorm will help small companies promote themselves in a cost effective manor
Again unproven and speculation. Other advertising companies already offer cost effective advertising so we will have to wait and see

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Paul Delaney

The primary concern for all here is that although Phorm say you can turn it off, because we've had no information to the contrary, turning off the adverts is no guarantee that we will avoid being profiled by the DPI kit.

Have you anything new to add which would allay those fears?

The fact the TalkTalk issued statements to the effect that they were looking at ways of routing the data from anyone not opted in to Phorm, around the DPI kit suggests that by default, all data is routed through the DPI kit which may (or may not) disregard data from any users not opted in. Although we have no way of verifying that that actually happens.

[TheBruce1]

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

1.) Phorm helps the internet community by making niche sites previous thought of as unattractive to advertisers attractive not because of their content but because of their visitors

Right so its beneficial for the advertiser, not the users.

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

2.) Phorm protects privacy because they do not store history data

And its my privacy and i can do without phorm, nothing on the internet is anonymous.

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

3.) Phorm offer a real choise whereas other advertisers who use java and the like to allow cross domain transfer of information do it all behimnd the scenes without informing users or giving a choise. Phorm offer a central off switch

I have a choice today, its called blocking ads i do not want to see.

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

4.) Phorm will actuall cause less advertising and an increase in the advertising value of real estate

Well, considering i cannot remember the last time i saw an ad, does this mean i will see no ads, at all?

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

5.) Phorm will help small companies promote themselves in a cost effective manor

In what way. All i have heard is how this benefits the advertiser/shareholders and nothing for the users, please do not go on about phorms anti-phish.

So this is all about money and greed.

If Phorm is so wonderful, why don`t they start-up as an ISP.

[rryles]

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

1.) Phorm helps the internet community by making niche sites previous thought of as unattractive to advertisers attractive not because of their content but because of their visitors

I'll admit that this is potentially a benefit. I don't think it's significant enough to justify the system though.

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

2.) Phorm protects privacy because they do not store history data

This relies on several things:
Phorm being trustworthy.
The system being secure.
The anonymisation process being effective.
I don't believe any of these will be the case.

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

3.) Phorm offer a real choise whereas other advertisers who use java and the like to allow cross domain transfer of information do it all behimnd the scenes without informing users or giving a choise. Phorm offer a central off switch

Phorm collects data from visits to websites that do not consent to it. A real choice?

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

4.) Phorm will actuall cause less advertising and an increase in the advertising value of real estate

Less advertising? Less than none?! I use ad block plus so I don't see any adverts online.

Originally Posted by antihanff.com

5.) Phorm will help small companies promote themselves in a cost effective manor

It'll also drive site visitors to competitors sites.

[Dephormation]

Can anyone advise, I need a cosmetic surgeon. I seem to have bitten through my lip... ooo yuk blood all over the keyboard.

Someone mention copyright for me. I feel giddy. I'm going to pass ol gkyglyglllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Update; Its ok. Its ok. I'm coming round again.

Regards recent posts, to quote other infamous criminal minds of our time, "I'd have gotten away with it too... If it wasn't for you meddling kids "

[Privacy_Matters]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

Can anyone advise, I need a cosmetic surgeon. I seem to have bitten through my lip... ooo yuk blood all over the keyboard.

Someone mention copyright for me. I feel giddy. I'm going to pass ol gkyglyglllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[sniff] RIP Pete

Update; Response to update:

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

I think he meant they "re-search" everything you do online

Alexander Hanff

Ha ha you got it in one 're-search' and perhaps also re-infect your PC if you don't protect your self with the anti-phorm venom.

[BeeVee]

From one of the silent majority..to all of the vocal minority.

We've written to our ISP informing them of our disgust of Phorm.

We've informed them we will cancel ALL of our services if Phorm is employed.

To Alexander and all of the vocal minority... we are listening, we hear you... and Thank You.

[mark777]

Eey by gum, ain't it grand to blow the cobwebs away?

I reckon a lot of bots with red braces are running around the phorm bunker tonight updating the files on who is still active.

Now, given that we have heard nothing about a 24hr warning of a trial by BT yet, it means nothing was sent out by letter to arrive today.

Anything sent out to arrive tomorrow might not arrive until midday or later. Therefore no trials this week, unless they start them at a funny time or over the weekend.

It won't start at the weekend because nobody will be there to mend the network. They won't give notice by e-mail because the EU is in town and I don't think they would like that.

So much for trials this week.

The only thing that does worry me a bit at the moment is the Friday EU meeting. Nobody knows anything about it.

Are they meeting with Phorm? Arranged by the Home Office?

Keep those letters going. IMHO It's really important.

[JackSon]

Originally Posted by TheBruce1

If Phorm is so wonderful, why don`t they start-up as an ISP.

That's a truly brilliant question! That would after all be the ultimate opt-in. Get free Phorm ADSL with targeted advert connection, and as you say, if it's as wonderful as billed, we should all jump at it.

I wonder if the reason they have not done as much is because if they are the ISP they can't blame someone else like they can if they are partnered with BT/VM/TT.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by rryles

I'll admit that this is potentially a benefit. I don't think it's significant enough to justify the system though.

This relies on several things:
Phorm being trustworthy.
The system being secure.
The anonymisation process being effective.
I don't believe any of these will be the case.

Phorm collects data from visits to websites that do not consent to it. A real choice?

Less advertising? Less than none?! I use ad block plus so I don't see any adverts online.

It'll also drive site visitors to competitors sites.

Forget about the advertising. Its about the illegal interception of our data. (Phorm or 121Media or Spyware ) does not equal safe secure browsing.

[TheBruce1]

I must say its nice to see PhormPR back, we have missed their copy/paste answers.

[mark777]

Originally Posted by BeeVee

From one of the silent majority..to all of the vocal minority.

We've written to our ISP informing them of our disgust of Phorm.

We've informed them we will cancel ALL of our services if Phorm is employed.

To Alexander and all of the vocal minority... we are listening, we hear you... and Thank You.

Many thanks - that's exactly what we need to hear now.