Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[bluecar1]

below is the latest install of my saga with BT, i think the webwise helpdesk (aka phorm) have got the record stuck

peter

***********
Dear Helpdesk

the answer below is not acceptable as i will not know when the system has been brought live.

On the off chance that you are invited to the trial. If you delete cookies regularly and want to remain opted-out, you can set your browser to block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net. When you block this domain, the service will opt you out permanently. To do this in Internet Explorer, click on ‘Tools’, then ‘Internet Options’ and on the Privacy tab, click ‘Sites’. In the ‘Address of Web site’ field, enter ‘www.webwise.net’ and click ‘Block’.

as i have stated i have 6 machines in my house, each with a number of accounts on, you are seriously suggesting i have to block the webwise domain on all accounts on all the machine and even if i add a new account to a machine REMEMBER to block it again

this is not a clear opt-in as required by the information commisioner for the system to be legal, this is an opt-in with a hope you will catch unwitting users who do not want it

also if a user decides to unblock the cookie and accept the trial and change my terms and conditions how will BT prove it was me who made the change and not a subaccount holder, or more to the point HOW WILL I KNOW my T's & C's have changed (oh let me guess i have to trust you??).

WHY CAN BT NOT MAKE THIS AN ACCOUNT LEVEL OPT IN AND ENSURE ONLY THE MAIN ACCOUNT HOLDER ONLY CAN ACCEPT THE INITIAL CHANGE, you do it with parental controls, why not PHORM / WEBWISE

i have lost all trust in BT's ability to privide a safe internet connection and want to leave ASAP but still have 8 months to go on my contract, i really don't see why i have to jump through these hoops to TRY and ensure the privacy of me and my familly is protected

so let me get this clear
if i accept the contract i am stuck with webwise and no option to leave
if i do not opt-in to webwise my contract does not change and i still have no option to leave
both of which i am left with an internet connection i do not trust but need to work from home

MR White

A SERIOUSLY DISSATIFIED CUSTOMER WHO WANTS TO LEAVE BUT CAN'T WITHOUT PAYING £200

PS I AM SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT PHORM AND IT'S INTRUSIVE NATURE TO ALL WHO WILL LISTEN, AND YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST A NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS FROM THIS





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bt.webwise.help.desk@bt.com [mailto:bt.webwise.help.desk@bt.com]
Sent: 13 June 2008 11:45
To: *******@btinternet.com
Subject: RE: RE: Broadband & Internet - BT Broadband - I want to make a complaint (*******0KM)


Dear Mr. White,

Apologies for the delay. We've endeavoured to compile comprehensive answers to your varied questions below.

Regards,
BT Webwise Helpdesk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: peter white [mailto:*******@btinternet.com]
Sent: Mon 09/06/2008 10:12
To: BT Webwise Help Desk G
Subject: RE: RE: Broadband & Internet - BT Broadband - I want to make a complaint (********0KM)



I still have not had a reply to the issues below,

How do I make a complaint about poor response times of the WebWise helpdesk?
And selective answering of questions


Regards

Peter white


-----Original Message-----
From: peter white [mailto:*****@btinternet.com]
Sent: 04 June 2008 10:34
To: 'bt.webwise.help.desk@bt.com'
Subject: RE: RE: Broadband & Internet - BT Broadband - I want to make a
complaint (KMM46016865I24871L0KM)

Thank you for the reply but I still have the following outstanding queries

Why should I have to block cookies for a service I do not want and that
invades my privacy by watching my browsing at network level.

On the off chance that you are invited to the trial. If you delete cookies regularly and want to remain opted-out, you can set your browser to block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net. When you block this domain, the service will opt you out permanently. To do this in Internet Explorer, click on ‘Tools’, then ‘Internet Options’ and on the Privacy tab, click ‘Sites’. In the ‘Address of Web site’ field, enter ‘www.webwise.net’ and click ‘Block’.

I have 6 machines in my house why should I have to do this due to BT's and
Phorm's lack of technical ability to provide a trial with correct
authentication and safeguards in place that mean only the account holder has
the ability to make the initial change to my T's and C's


On the off chance that you are invited to the trial you can pre-emptively do the following on each computer given your misgivings: Set your browser to block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net. When you block this domain, the service will opt you out permanently. To do this in Internet Explorer, click on ‘Tools’, then ‘Internet Options’ and on the Privacy tab, click ‘Sites’. In the ‘Address of Web site’ field, enter ‘www.webwise.net’ and click ‘Block’.


How will I know if a subaccount holder has agreed to PHORM and changed my
contract ?

If you implement this the users will not see the interstitial: If you delete cookies regularly and want to remain opted-out, you can set your browser to block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net. When you block this domain, the service will opt you out permanently. To do this in Internet Explorer, click on ‘Tools’, then ‘Internet Options’ and on the Privacy tab, click ‘Sites’. In the ‘Address of Web site’ field, enter ‘www.webwise.net’ and click ‘Block’.

BT should be making sure the trial is conducted in a way where the account
holder only has authority to accept the service as it requires a change in
the term and conditions of my contract with BT

Again, if you are this concerned we recommend that you set your browser to block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net. When you block this domain, the service will opt you out permanently. To do this in Internet Explorer, click on ‘Tools’, then ‘Internet Options’ and on the Privacy tab, click ‘Sites’. In the ‘Address of Web site’ field, enter ‘www.webwise.net’ and click ‘Block’.

When opted out, is my web traffic still passed via a profiler (even if
ignored) or my traffic profiled but no targeted adverts served to me, or is
my traffic passed direct out onto the internet via a different route thus
bypassing the system altogether (unlikely as apparently I will get reminder
adverts about WebWise system being turned off and click here to turn it on?)

Thought we answered this before, but here goes:

Specifically: Technical segregation information can be found here: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/customer_choice.html

If I block the domain I will not be aware of when you start spying on my
browsing.

Refer to above to understand the opt-out and where it occurs.

Can you confirm the statement earlier in the email from one of your
colleagues that unless I agree to PHORM my terms and conditions will not
alter, so I will not be allowed to terminate my contract due to material
change to T's and C's?

Given your misgivings, and on the off chance that you are invited to the trial: If you implement the above domain block ahead of time, the new T's and C's will not be offered.

If a subaccount holder accepts the change to my T's and C's during the trail
how do I get it reverted to the original contract as they would not have had
the correct authority to make this change


Given your misgivings, and on the off chance that you are invited to the trial: If you implement the above domain block ahead of time, the new T's and C's will not be offered.


Does the trail require me to accept a new contract or is it only the full
service when released

We don't consider the contractual changes that will be introduced for the forthcoming Webwise trial to be materially disadvantageous. They will simply enable us to take the necessary steps to provide the Webwise service to those customers who choose to participate in the trial.

Regards

Peter white

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by Delbuoy

Ironically what we seem to need is targeted advertising

Nope. What we need is good advertising.

Ad/Marketing people seem to have completely lost the plot.

Eye catching ads. Inspiring ads. Ads that make you curious. Challenging ads.

The Smash Potato Robots for fun. The 'Shake 'n Vac' to put the freshness back. The Hovis loaf for the sentimental. And even that ghastly (but unique) Frog.

Advertising with real eye catching creative talent that accurately reflects and understands the aspirations of the audience.

That's what we need.

Targeted advertising is for the talentless idiots who can't create their own market. We're better than that

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------

EU's Online Privacy Hearing Follows Senate's Next Week

U.S. lawmakers are not the only ones who are concerned about whether online advertising violates people's privacy. Regulators in Europe are also turning their attention to the issue.

In the latest development, the European Commission, which is tasked with enforcing Europe's broad privacy protection law, has scheduled a hearing in London for next Friday. That meeting will take place two days after a U.S. Senate subcommittee is slated to explore online advertising and privacy.

Anyone in a position to leaflet outside that meeting next Friday?

---------- Post added at 14:20 ---------- Previous post was at 14:12 ----------

Attending Meglena Kuneva EU Commisioner

"I want to make sure that people everywhere can enjoy the same high levels of protection, through proper law enforcement. I want consumer organisations in the Member States to have adequate resources, and I intend to tackle those people wishing to cheat and defraud consumers, through good cooperation between national authorities."

I feel another batch of letters flying out.

[bluecar1]

i like the last para

"Meanwhile, news that Phorm conducted secret tests of a similar platform with U.K. Internet service provider British Telecom in 2006 continued to reverberate. This week, the European Commission reportedly said it would examine the test."

that sounds a bit more positive than other agencies are reporting

[BetBlowWhistler]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

{snip} block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net

If I was being told to do this then I would consider it a change in my T's & C's that would be to my detriment.

Then I would push for my MAC code or take them to the small claims court for the amount they wish to charge me for cancelling my contract. Enough noise and aggrevation they will let you go with your MAC code.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by BetBlowWhistler

If I was being told to do this then I would consider it a change in my T's & C's that would be to my detriment.

Then I would push for my MAC code or take them to the small claims court for the amount they wish to charge me for cancelling my contract. Enough noise and aggrevation they will let you go with your MAC code.

AAgree totally my son is trapped in a BT total long contract and if they change the privacy policy to accomdate phorm then he plans to make enough noise and get let out early to move to another ISP of his choice phorm phree he said.

[jelv]

A reminder to everyone: Under OFCOM rules an ISP cannot withhold issuing a MAC because of a dispute over outstanding fees - they must issue the MAC within 5 working days of a request.

See http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi...vogc150807.pdf

See Annex 1 starting on page 73.

Para A1.5 specifies the 5 days

Para A1.11 gives reasons why they may refuse to provide a MAC - refusal to pay a termination fee is NOT a valid reason.

[BetBlowWhistler]

Originally Posted by jelv

A reminder to everyone: Under OFCOM rules an ISP cannot withhold issuing a MAC because of a dispute over outstanding fees - they must issue the MAC within 5 working days of a request.

See http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi...vogc150807.pdf

See Annex 1 starting on page 73.

Para A1.5 specifies the 5 days

Para A1.11 gives reasons why they may refuse to provide a MAC - refusal to pay a termination fee is NOT a valid reason.

That's a great piece of info Jelv, but since when did BT observe the rules?

Still, I particularly like

A1.12 Where the Communications Provider is unable to, or refuses to, provide a
MAC to the End-User, the Communications Provider shall provide the End-
User with a clear explanation of why the MAC has not been provided.

[jelv]

If they don't follow those rules it's a clear cut case which can be presented to OFCOM. I've seen postings elsewhere that indicate that action is taken against these cases.

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by R Jones

Google showing Phorm at 975p - it looks like the dry rot in the £10 floor just gave way. Someone just sold £8K at 975p.

rob, can you pm me with dear emma's email addy

i would like to ask her a few questions my self, and if you have any pointers on how to avoid her junk box let me know, maybe titling the email "emma phorm IS LEGAL" would get past here junk filter

peter

[warescouse]

I noticed today that el reg said "Spookcall, the UK's first caller ID-spoofing service available to the general public, has decided to close less than one week after launch."

Their spokesman had said previously a couple of days before that they (Spookcall) had sought legal advice and everything was hunky dory (my words).

I wondered if the company they sought advice from was also the same company advising BT in their webwise trials.

[popper]

Originally Posted by BetBlowWhistler

If I was being told to do this then I would consider it a change in my T's & C's that would be to my detriment.

Then I would push for my MAC code or take them to the small claims court for the amount they wish to charge me for cancelling my contract. Enough noise and aggrevation they will let you go with your MAC code.

im still convinced that the Small claims court is our very good friend in all this T&C contract nonsense, it just takes a little coordinated thinking to get it right.

and if your (anyones)going to the trouble of sending your Letter Before Action (LBA) claiming your MAC code and the costs of ending the contract and costs (your generic per hour fee,travel costs, letters time,materials,research,etc [see: bank charges threads for all of these allowences etc]), then you might as well also add in the full monty.

any and all unlawful T&C clauses in there to be struck off,all costs of relocating to another ISP of your choice.

and getting a basic BT *DSL capable line installed and activated ,or even any wireless ISP inclusive connection fees, if that is your choice, if VM do activate this Phorm,etc.

everyone when talking about needing the T&C changing, forgets about the official BT diagrams of this upcoming trial, it clearly shows they are giving YOU no other option other than to be directly connected to the Deep Packet Interception kit so they can unlawfully put cookies on YOUR PC and check For them to see if they are legally allowed to Intercept you....

that is still clearly against the law, they can talk all they like about your T&C wont chance IF..... but if you decline or remove your authorisation to be intercepted at any time, then they are breaking the law, and the other documents and industry agreements etc, and NOT giving you the choice to never be intercepted by the DPI kit, a clear breach of any "in good faith" legal terms, or fair term for both partys in this CONSUMER Contract...

BTW, it appears you can use the moneyclaim online site for your Small claims, or just pop down your local court and get the N1 forms and leaflets explaining the procedure, you can also asked the court clerks to point you in the right direction as regards what other Leaflets you might want to use, claiming back fees or filling in forms for weaving costs for low income claiments etc apparently, again see the bank charges threads in the CAG.

---------- Post added at 15:33 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

Originally Posted by warescouse

I noticed today that el reg said "Spookcall, the UK's first caller ID-spoofing service available to the general public, has decided to close less than one week after launch."

Their spokesman had said previously a couple of days before that they (Spookcall) had sought legal advice and everything was hunky dory (my words).

I wondered if the company they sought advice from was also the same company advising BT in their webwise trials.

sp&*kCall must of forgot to pay those bluechip investors to sign up to their Board Of Directors, unlike K*nt.... he knows lots of them, i wonder if their not so happy with him right now , they too must have lost a few quid off their shares portfolio options

[SelfProtection]

It looks like the Share Price is being Shored Up for the Week end again, I hope a couple of Bigger Investors sell to protect their Pension funds at the Last minute to put a big dent in it.

[tdadyslexia]

Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters

Petition Link Button:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8...nbuttonhf3.gif

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

125 (W) x 125 (H)

If you have a website add this image and link to:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/

Animated version will be available later today.

Alex, I hope you don't mind - I've put your site URL at the bottom

Can you do an Anti-Phorm Banner 120x600 to go on my sites?

[Wildie]

just for the hell of it so they cannot id you all and profile you at the protest and serve you fliers.
http://tinyurl.com/3gkjec

[AlexanderHanff]

Well the AdWords seem to be working well; just running a small campaign against the events category page (53 key words/phrases) and have managed to increase traffic by about 400% so far. I will put up a few more campaigns tonight once I see how this once does this evening.

As I said earlier, can the person who offered to donate an AdWords voucher in PM to me contact me again, I have lost the PM.

Alexander Hanff