Leaving Virgin ?

[slowcoach]

Originally Posted by ceedee

In that case, I suspect an imposter has been posting in your name:

The two statements do not conflict with each other, I despise them for doing it whilst I know that it is going on and has been for as long as they have been able to do it.

Could you cite some sources for your claims concerning MicroShaft, banks and 'data miners' who can access and deal in our browsing history as Phorm hope to?

I never said Microsoft/Banks were stealing our browsing history, the fact is we do not know what data they collect and what happens to it afterwards.
In the case of Microsoft we do know that they read the disk to check if your copy of their application is legit, we also know they check to see if you need any updates, what we don’t know is what else they are doing because they cover their tracks.

In the case of Banks/Supermarkets, your spending habits are a valuable commodity, to be able to filter data just containing details of customers who for instance regularly buy wine in a certain price range makes this information worth many times the normal value, this type of filtered information is critical for some other company wishing to have a successful targeted marketing campaign.
Hell, they are that greedy and short termed they will even sell your data to one of their rivals.
Avoiding Phorm still leaves us vulnerable to the thousands of other data collectors.

There are the companies who do nothing else but buy and sell data, they will source data from all and sundry, very little you do today goes unrecorded by someone.

[Wild Oscar]

Originally Posted by darthlinux

All I am is saying VM havent started using Phorm yet and even if they do you have a choice to either opt out or opt in

With respect Darthlinux , you are missing the point!

You are only opting-in or opting-out of recieving targeted ads ... your surfing data has already been intercepted and analysed ..

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Wild Oscar

With respect Darthlinux , you are missing the point!

You are only opting-in or opting-out of recieving targeted ads ... your surfing data has already been intercepted and analysed ..

How do you know that?

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

How do you know that?

Nobody *knows* it but that is how Phorm explained how their system worked, how Richard Clayton understands that it works, how BT have described how their implementation will work and the only way that advertising marketing commentators reckon that Phorm will be profitable.

Of course, VM could surprise the entire world and have found another way of implementing Phorm that'll satisfy every privacy concern. But then you'd have thought that if that was the case, they'd have publicised their proceedure to counter some of the negative PR VM have suffered.

I'll concentrate on what's known so far and not hold my breath.


On a different tack: perhaps VM have already decided to drop Phorm (as rumours suggest) but are waiting for the next bit of bad news (nationwide daytime STM?) before letting us know?

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by ceedee

On a different tack: perhaps VM have already decided to drop Phorm (as rumours suggest) but are waiting for the next bit of bad news (nationwide daytime STM?) before letting us know?

Again, how can they drop something they haven't introduced???

[cadex]

Hell no, Im not leaving Virgin!
Always had amazing service from them, even if they introduce phorm I probably wouldn't switch, it's not worth the hassle as I ignore all adverts on the net anyway!

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by ceedee

On a different tack: perhaps VM have already decided to drop Phorm (as rumours suggest) but are waiting for the next bit of bad news (nationwide daytime STM?) before letting us know?

If a bunch of armed police officers ask you to "drop the smoking gun," would you reply that you can't because you've not introduced it yet?


From VM's website:

"You may have heard that Virgin Media is currently working with a company called Phorm about the possible introduction of a technology called ‘Webwise’."

drop (STOP)
verb [T]
1 to stop doing or planning something, especially an activity:
I'm going to drop yoga and do aerobics instead.
Can you drop what you're doing and help me with this report?
(Source: Cambridge Advance Learners' Dictionary)

[BenMcr]

I know what drop means, but most people infer that if you drop something you already have it.

If armed police tell you to drop the smoking gun, it may not be smoking, but 99 times out of 100 you are still holding a gun. (the other time it is probably a table leg)

If you had said 'I hope Virgin don't introduced/start/commence with Phorm' I would agree

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Again, how can they drop something they haven't introduced???

Well according to the CEO of Phorm they are ready to deploy. VM don't seem to want to stop him saying that ether, Now if that is a lie Its a bit strange That VM are not telling him to stop. If i was running a business and Phorm lied about when i was deploying i would have them in court if they did not retract it. ??????


I really dont trust VM over this one little bit.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I know what drop means, but most people infer that if you drop something you already have it.

I think VM already *do* have it -- they're just waiting for the right time to tell us whether it'll be implemented or not.

If armed police tell you to drop the smoking gun, it may not be smoking, but 99 times out of 100 you are still holding a gun. (the other time it is probably a table leg)

RIP Harry Stanley.
Mind you, VM *are* still holding a smoking Phorm...

If you had said 'I hope Virgin don't introduced/start/commence with Phorm' I would agree

Just to muddy the waters a little further, how about:

On a different tack: perhaps VM have already decided not to introduce, start or commence Webwise and are planning to drop Phorm (as rumours suggest) from a very high building but are waiting for the next bit of bad news (nationwide daytime STM?) before letting us know?

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by ceedee

Mind you, VM *are* still holding a smoking Phorm...

Shouldn't that be 'holding a steaming pile of Phorm'?

Just to muddy the waters a little further, how about:

On a different tack: perhaps VM have already decided not to introduce, start or commence Webwise and are planning to drop Phorm (as rumours suggest) from a very high building but are waiting for the next bit of bad news (nationwide daytime STM?) before letting us know?

Much Better

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by ceedee

Mind you, VM *are* still holding a smoking Phorm...

If you say so, Ben.
You're evidently closer to it than me...

[BenMcr]

Well it does seem to have already hit the fan, as it were

[Dephormation]

I'm a gonner. That includes all Virgin Media services too, including the mobile.

I also suspect they trialled this software in 2006/7. I have records of complaints made to vm.f at the time (including my own) about strange faults affecting web traffic. After the revelations about BT trials, I simply don't trust VirginMedia any more.

My internet connection is simply too important to me to be compromised by idiots like Phorm. I don't want to share any aspect of my net surfing with a bunch of Adware/Spyware merchants based in Moscow/Delware. And I don't want Virgin's 'Internet Product Architect' operating my service, if he can't understand what's wrong with Phorm.

So the choice was made for me. Aquiss have been great, I'm actually getting a faster connection from them than I had with Virgin.

Here's some tips if you want to move to a decent ISP.

Pete.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

How do you know that?

As I understand it extra hardware is introduced into the 'chain' to enable the analysis work. There is no obvious way to avoid the whole client datastream for every customer having to pass through this equipment. It is only *after* cookie analysis has taken place that the opt-in or opt-out status can be decided. At that time the decision is made whether or not to send adverts based on your opt-in status. However, by that time your data has already entered the system. Now how many of us really believe that any commercial organisation is just going to dump that valuable data?