Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Chroma]

Originally Posted by popper

[SNIP]

its tiny, its stand alone, it's covered all the tcp:ip/udp/uncasting/ and even multicasting in a 600k xp(or many other OS) app, what more could you want ...

Binaries for starters

Im personaly not a fan of interpreted languages, id rather just stick to tried and tested c/c++ to get things done, sure its not "hip" like Haskel its not "cool" like Ruby on the rails, its also not a toy fad language.

I feel i may be a little close minded on the subject of languages but im old, and grouchy and know that id rather have something tried and tested and supplied with an optional knees deep documentation to rummage through and the reassurance that there will be a variety of newsgroup/irc channel/webpage resources with answers to quirky problems that i may stumble upon.

The only time i use interpreted languages is during the conceptual stage because without the need to continualy recompile i can test things faster before porting it to a real language as a release build.

and i dont feel im biased because of the fact its "ZOMG FASTAR", or has a "smaller footprint" or anything quite as convolouted as that. Ive written some code in c thats been highly unoptimised and hasnt performed nearly as well as the interpreted build, although that can be improved upon by making the code a little less clunky and a little more elegant.

My reason for favoring a compiled language over interpreted is simple. Its far easier for the end user to use and understand, and in this respect it is entirely faster. Click on a binary and go, no messing around with interpreters, configuring an environment or any of that nonsense (unless of course your running a linux/unix/bsd system in which case setting additional bumph is a way of life regardless)

The point is, if i give my brother a binary, he can use it. If i was to give him say a python script he would be essentialy clueless and take a few hours trying to figure out how to use it.

Rebol however looks like a nice language to tinker around with in my spare time, the fact remains however that interpreted languages are only easier for the programmer, and its the end user whos needs you need to cater for.

[Toto]

You have to wonder about privacy when.........

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...ion_directive/

[popper]

Originally Posted by Chroma

Binaries for starters

Im personaly not a fan of interpreted languages, id rather just stick to tried and tested c/c++ to get things done, sure its not "hip" like Haskel its not "cool" like Ruby on the rails, its also not a toy fad language.

I feel i may be a little close minded on the subject of languages but im old, and grouchy and know that id rather have something tried and tested and supplied with an optional knees deep documentation to rummage through and the reassurance that there will be a variety of newsgroup/irc channel/webpage resources with answers to quirky problems that i may stumble upon.

The only time i use interpreted languages is during the conceptual stage because without the need to continualy recompile i can test things faster before porting it to a real language as a release build.

and i dont feel im biased because of the fact its "ZOMG FASTAR", or has a "smaller footprint" or anything quite as convolouted as that. Ive written some code in c thats been highly unoptimised and hasnt performed nearly as well as the interpreted build, although that can be improved upon by making the code a little less clunky and a little more elegant.

My reason for favoring a compiled language over interpreted is simple. Its far easier for the end user to use and understand, and in this respect it is entirely faster. Click on a binary and go, no messing around with interpreters, configuring an environment or any of that nonsense (unless of course your running a linux/unix/bsd system in which case setting additional bumph is a way of life regardless)

The point is, if i give my brother a binary, he can use it. If i was to give him say a python script he would be essentialy clueless and take a few hours trying to figure out how to use it.

Rebol however looks like a nice language to tinker around with in my spare time, the fact remains however that interpreted languages are only easier for the programmer, and its the end user whos needs you need to cater for.

you do know Carl Sassenrath was the guy that wote and gave the world the multitasking Amiga OS right, so he knows a thing or two about coding small, fast, and making it easy for the users?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sassenrath

sure, carl likes C and many of the older languages too, helped code and shape some of them along the way.

its a shame, but you cant get away from Binaries,you would be hard pushed to make your own and keep it so small given all the networking protocols inside it, but robol trys to make it as simple as it gets for a user, grab the Binary ,install it if you like, or run it from wereever you place it, double click a rebol.r text file script and Go, and it loads into the interpreter.

it as you imply, it also makes it a very good and quick prototypeing GUI capable language, and its scripts works as is on linux/unix/bsd systems

http://www.rebol.com/plugin/install.html
this is fun
http://www.rebol.net/plugin/demos/pongo.html

---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 21:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Toto

You have to wonder about privacy when.........

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...ion_directive/

from toto's url above
"Government orders data retention by ISPs
Keep it for 12 months for the plods..."

and also today we have this report, its a good job we have been reading all the legislation and have some idea of how and why all this inter-relates
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...s-google-earth
"Spy in the sky banned in Europe

Google Earth too intrusive for Euro laws

By Nick Farrell: Friday, 16 May 2008, 9:17 AM



GOOGLE'S PLAN TO PUT detailed street-level images on the Internet will not be allowed in the European Union.
The EU's data protection agency said that Google's Street View, which shows ground-level, 360-degree views of streets in 30 US cities, would break EU privacy laws.
...
"

[warescouse]

Interesting article on El Reg.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...stions_nebuad/

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by warescouse

Interesting article on El Reg.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...stions_nebuad/

That must cause more downward pressure on the Phorm share price on Monday. Another one for iii forum, for brettypoos to digest over the weekend. (Brettypoos last recorded utterance 8.18am, "it's still NOT too late to BUY Phorm".) It's certainly cheap at the moment!

10 days to the BT trials latest declared start date, and counting...
10...

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by R Jones

That must cause more downward pressure on the Phorm share price on Monday. Another one for iii forum, for brettypoos to digest over the weekend. (Brettypoos last recorded utterance 8.18am, "it's still NOT too late to BUY Phorm".) It's certainly cheap at the moment!

10 days to the BT trials latest declared start date, and counting...
10...

I think Brettypoos is one of Kents 'Spinsters'. I sometimes think 'answers?' Brettypoos gives on iii are to imagined conversations.

Makes me smile though, thinking about all the money Phorms investors stand to lose. Deservedly so in my opinion.

Anyone investing in or trying to make money from dubious operations deserve to lose all their ill gotten gains.

Originally Posted by R Jones

That must cause more downward pressure on the Phorm share price on Monday. Another one for iii forum, for brettypoos to digest over the weekend. (Brettypoos last recorded utterance 8.18am, "it's still NOT too late to BUY Phorm".) It's certainly cheap at the moment!

10 days to the BT trials latest declared start date, and counting...
10...

And Phorm's shares bottom out Monday...


PHORM: Hello, is that Dell Business Finance?
DELL: Yes Sir, how may we help you?
PHORM: We'd like to set up a credit account with you to purchase customised tower mounted server hardware at an initial cost of £100,000.00 per unit
DELL: Certainly Sir, and your company name is?
PHORM: Phorm Inc.
DELL: Click Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


PHORM: Hello is that BT Webwise - erm about this trial... we've had some technological problems with the ISP kit we said w'ed install for free...

[icsys]

Originally Posted by Geosynchronous

Hi,
Thanks guys for all your hard work. As a result of the Phorm issue I've changed my ISP from BT to IDNet.

I've started a Wikipedia page for "Data pimping" (as it has become a generic term for what all these nefarious companies are doing) so please help improve it from it's humble beginnings (and link to it in as many Wikipedia articles as appropriate).

Wikipedia - Data pimping

Great wiki.

I would keep an eye on it though. A certain company likes to edit out certain factual parts of wikis that it doesn't agree with.

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by Toto

You have to wonder about privacy when.........

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...ion_directive/

This actually isn't new and is the result of European Law way back from 2004/2005. The difference is the ISP are only permitted to log the url's you visit not the content. It also covers email headers (not content).

So even the government "snooping" party is less invasive than Phorm and even though the data is retained the police still need a warrant to access it. The changes to RIPA mentioned in the article re: cell phones last October is the very reason I cancelled my contract phone of 8 years. I have recently rejoined the cell phone crowd though, but this time I am on an unregistered SIM and will remain so. Good for me (saves me a fortune in contract fees and protects my privacy) bad for the mobile provider (they lose my guaranteed income each month).

Alexander Hanff

[Toto]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

This actually isn't new and is the result of European Law way back from 2004/2005. The difference is the ISP are only permitted to log the url's you visit not the content. It also covers email headers (not content).

So even the government "snooping" party is less invasive than Phorm and even though the data is retained the police still need a warrant to access it. The changes to RIPA mentioned in the article re: cell phones last October is the very reason I cancelled my contract phone of 8 years. I have recently rejoined the cell phone crowd though, but this time I am on an unregistered SIM and will remain so. Good for me (saves me a fortune in contract fees and protects my privacy) bad for the mobile provider (they lose my guaranteed income each month).

Alexander Hanff

Alexander, are you saying then they can only get this information via an order from the court, not the usual RIPA requests they can make to an ISP?

[3x2]

Ed Markey, the chairman of the House Subcommittee on Telecommunications and the Internet, and Joe Barton, a ranking member of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce

It's good to see that even though the technology hasn't really hit home yet in the US it's already under fire. Say's a lot about our 'leaders' though doesn't it?

[Florence]

Originally Posted by 3x2

It's good to see that even though the technology hasn't really hit home yet in the US it's already under fire. Say's a lot about our 'leaders' though doesn't it?

It might have started to hit home in the US lets hope our politician sget of their backsides now and do something for the electorate.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...ssmen-ask.html

A flow chart patent for the nebuad
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...-no-optin.html

[pseudonym]

The petiton has finally passed 13,000 but has also been knocked down to fourth place by the fuel protestors.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/

Maybe we could encourage potential signees of the fuel duty petition to sign the anti-phorm petiton too - Anyone a member of some car forums?

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by Toto

Alexander, are you saying then they can only get this information via an order from the court, not the usual RIPA requests they can make to an ISP?

The RIPA request requires a warrant irrespective of where it is being used, even ISPs. Or at least that is my interpretation of the law and is certainly how it is reported as being used.

Alexander Hanff

[SelfProtection]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

The RIPA request requires a warrant irrespective of where it is being used, even ISPs. Or at least that is my interpretation of the law and is certainly how it is reported as being used.

Alexander Hanff

I know it's a little out of date but it is something to keep for reference.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...rul/page4.html

The quote below would suggest that the Profiling is "Always ON", for
the simple reason that the Webwise System can tell you; by "Page
Injection", that they are profiling but not allowed to serve OIX ads!

-----------
KE:
The conversation over opt-in/opt-out is blurred by the one about
transparency. They want to always be aware about whether something is on
or off.
So we're going to do something unprecedented, and you'll never see this
anywhere. Which is, as they continue to browse periodically you're going
to see in an ad space "Webwise is on" or "Webwise is off", so it's more
like a feature. Frankly, it's bad business to have people feel like
something is being forced on them. Google stores everything you search,
but it never says, "look, by the way we're storing all this and we keep
it for a year".
------------

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Anyone who is using the Safari Browser should be aware that on 404 errors etc this browser "phones home" to Apple.

If a non-disposable e-mail address was used when downloading the Software, there will more than likely be a slow increase of SPAM from Apple promoting their other products.