New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by Berealwith

I couldn't agree more, those BIGOTS who have posted above have no idea why some people have 20mb connections, they are narrow minded and only have one way at looking at things. i bought 20mb to use it i have 4/5 people on a router here (the 5 person comes on when she comes home from uni) what the hell do they think i will do buy five 2mb connections (i think not) so get of the people who do use it..........and we all steam tv download a bit like most game online............what else do you think i have a 20mb for.................................

and this is why virgin gets up its ass about it..........they only pay for bandwith used not how many connections they have.....

How many reasonably-demanding users do you think your <£39/month connection ought to be able to cope with 24/7?

Would it be reasonable for me to setup multiple wifi access points and expect that all 60 households in my complex can stream TV and download games at the same time of day?

which means if they properly cost their connections in reality they would never oversubscribe, so thats why they have to STM not because of the 5% of high users, because they want you to pay more and dont use your connection

Do your five users accept that only one of them can get (at best) 20Mb/s at any one time?
And that if two of them start fast downloads at the same time, they are likely to only get around 10Mb/s each?

That's contention in action -- multiple users sharing the same bandwidth.

Do you accept that all ISPs need to use contention at the UBR or exchange to offer domestic connections at an affordable price?
If not, then your five users (requiring in the region of 4Mb/s each) need to be thinking of paying a lot more than £39/month each for their dedicated connections.

In an ideal network we'd barely notice the contention when demand for bandwidth was high but much of VM's network is oversubscribed and the only solution is to provide greater capacity. This is precisely what VM's DOCSIS3 programme will do albeit 'following' the demand curve rather than in anticipation of it.

Oh, and please don't make personal attacks on other posters: it's offensive and diminishes your argument.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by ceedee

Oh, and please don't make personal attacks on other posters: it's offensive and diminishes your argument.

I have always said that if you resort to personal attacks you have lost the argument and should stop there. Having a go at people on this forum be it those members of staff that post here or the many posters who spend time here will NOT fix your problem.


Good post CeeDee

[AndrewJ]

Originally Posted by ceedee

Best of luck with that!

Then it's offline, I am not asking for maximum speed all day but I want the speed when I need it, not to have it cut out just because I have the nerve to use what I pay for.

I have to run more than one computer since myself and my partner live here, and also I have family and kids over so game consoles are in use aswell online * no fun vs AI *

Coupled with me legitimatly sharing files over the torrent network for the STBC mod community and the new limitations of the system are too much.

And by principle of the matter I refuse to pay for a service of which I am paying a premium now of which is not fit for purpose.

[Angry@VMedia]

Originally Posted by TheDon

snip
The service *IS* unlimited, there is no limit to how much you can download, speed restrictions do not change it from being unlimited as at no point will your internet be cut if you reach an arbituary limit.

This is where you are wrong.
What do you call STM then? they LIMIT your speeds, which in effect means they LIMIT how much you can download/upload per day.
And all this rubbish about ONLY being STM'ed if you are in the top 5% this is rubbish!

Say I am the only person in a village with virgin's internet, and I go over my LIMITS, how the hell can I be within the top 5%?
Virgin are just using this scamming technique so they can cram more people on the already well over-subscribed network, thus increasing their PROFITS while ripping customers off as they are in effect STEALING already paid for bandwidth, and as we all know, the more customers they cram on, the less speed we will get, and this is the ONLY reason why they are doing it.

Now anyone could just come back with "but they are constantly upgrading their network" answer: WRONG!!!
IF they are indeed constantly upgrading their network,then WHY are people STILL saying they have poor speeds?
Virgin IMO would NEVER do anything to help its customers, quite the contrary, they do EVERYTHING they can to screw us customers over, this is FACT!

Rant over now

[Berealwith]

Connection 60 households? No just one router (and virgin sells routers) and my router has port throttling on I have it set for each member. When I set about making my LAN I took all this into consideration, but most don’t have any idea.

Regarding contention and the 5% of high users I do accept the price for a good service, but we don't get that and it’s not the high user's fault, which always get the finger pointed at. It's virgin's fault for not getting their gamble right, or for that matter listening to their customers.

and no you won’t get an apology for saying some people on here are BIGOTS, they are and no matter how many times you try to educate them they still won’t see the wood because of the trees...

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by Berealwith

Connection 60 households? No just one router (and virgin sells routers) and my router has port throttling on I have it set for each member.

If you accept that applying contention rules is appropriate for your LAN then why do you think it's unacceptable for VM to do the same at the UBR?
What bandwidth would you think is satisfactory for each of your five users at peak times?

Regarding contention and the 5% of high users I do accept the price for a good service, but we don't get that and it’s not the high user's fault, which always get the finger pointed at. It's virgin's fault for not getting their gamble right, or for that matter listening to their customers.

I'd agree that VM should have predicted the huge increase in bandwidth demand and increased capacity earlier. As I understand it, VM's current network has been designed to cope with a contention ratio (apparently 20:1) based on most users consuming just 3GB/month.
In that light, it's not surprising that currently 5% of users (myself included) expect far more than that and it's our (above average) usage that's 'overloading' the network.
In response, VM are investing in DOCSIS3 which should increase capacity next year.
But even then, you'll be very unlikely to be able to download at 20Mb/s at peak times when everybody else is online -- just like your LAN users.

and no you won’t get an apology for saying some people on here are BIGOTS, they are and no matter how many times you try to educate them they still won’t see the wood because of the trees...

I didn't ask for an apology, I simply pointed out that personal attacks were offensive and wouldn't help you "educate" posters who don't see things your way.

---------- Post added at 14:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Then it's offline, I am not asking for maximum speed all day but I want the speed when I need it, not to have it cut out just because I have the nerve to use what I pay for.
[...]
And by principle of the matter I refuse to pay for a service of which I am paying a premium now of which is not fit for purpose.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you want to have your maximum speed available whenever you want it, regardless of other customers' usage. To get that you'll need an uncontended connection or a network running way below it's economically affordable level.
Expect to pay an awful lot more than VM's current charges!

Again I wish you the best of luck in finding it.

[AndrewJ]

I never said a maximum speed, I am happy with 50% of my speed even 30%, what I am not happy about is having my speed cut for hours on end.

I don't mind a slower network, I do mine a retarded one.

Each person to their own view.

[Berealwith]

Hi ceedee,
you missed out the bit where i said "When I set about making my LAN I took all this into consideration". Thats what it is all about, i didn't think for one minute i wouldn't have to, i also told them what i could deliver. Note i don't gamble with other poeple's money or service. That's what you would expect to get from me, so i expect from other's, i am to long in the tooth to suffer fools.

Yes i do get fustrated at others comments, on here all they seem to do is knock high user's and dont think about others, so sometimes i voice my view from another prospective. what i find wrong is they never seem to get "hold on mate there are other reasons why people want 20mb connection, and not just to download 24/7.

It's virgins (new name bought for frontend but still NTL/TW) fault that couldn't provide a stable network and why so many upgrade's are needed. "They simply got it wrong", hence the high level of STM.

IF and a big IF in a years time VM are investing in DOCSIS3 which should increase capacity next year, brings about a better service then i might come back.

But nothing will change, The ironic thing they have done was to keep upgrading for nothing 4mb to 10mb, 10mb to 20mb..........It makes no sense at all

[Jelly]

Originally Posted by Angry@VMedia

This is where you are wrong.
What do you call STM then? they LIMIT your speeds, which in effect means they LIMIT how much you can download/upload per day.

That is a limit nobody can remove: the amount of data you could download in a day at full speed is decided by the speed you pay for. Moving to Be* or similar would not get rid of that limit. This is no different when STM'd.

[Berealwith]

Just thought i post this

[mcmanic]

the thing is with STM and probably annoying most is that we have had STM awhile now and VM keep changing the rules and not really informing anyone and us the end users are getting a resticted service which isn't getting any better even with STM. Thats whats annoying. Its as if STM is being used to actually keep the service going due to VM over subscribing and not updating the network and then blaming the heavy users,

end result is they can limit your download/uploads, you have to pay top package to get any decent level of service.

sucks TBH, going backwards instead of forwards. Soon we will have 2hour disconnects just like dialup days, lol

Originally Posted by Jelly

That is a limit nobody can remove: the amount of data you could download in a day at full speed is decided by the speed you pay for. Moving to Be* or similar would not get rid of that limit. This is no different when STM'd.

-rolls eyes-

Difference here would be without STM your only limited by the actual connection your paying for, with STM they are purposely taking 75% of it away from you thus restricting your speed and restricting the amount of data you can download.

[Ed2020]

I just wish they'd drop the new 50Mb service, drop the 20Mb service and go back to a non-shaped 10Mb as the top end connection.

They're blatantly increasing their top end speeds to appear competitive with the faster ADSL services. It's all nonsense because their network can't deliver what they're promising and most of the ADSL providers are in the same boat.

I'd much rather have a 10Mb line that where I didn't have to watch my download amounts than a 20Mb (or 50Mb or 100Mb for that matter) connection where I do. I'd probably even pay more for it!

I'd like to say I'd move if this came into effect, but I'm not sure this alone would do it.

Now if they implement Phorm or their three-strikes rule that would be entirely different story!

Ed

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by Ed2020

I just wish they'd drop the new 50Mb service, drop the 20Mb service and go back to a non-shaped 10Mb as the top end connection.

Won't this be the situation once DOCSIS3 is in place for the 50Mb and 20Mb services?

[Angry@VMedia]

Originally Posted by Jelly

That is a limit nobody can remove: the amount of data you could download in a day at full speed is decided by the speed you pay for. Moving to Be* or similar would not get rid of that limit. This is no different when STM'd.

So there we have it, virgin media's internet IS LIMITED!!!

And why on earth are they STILL advertising it as UNLIMITED?