Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Traduk]

I posted weeks ago asking if anyone had kept any PingPlotter traces from between the national outage (21 Dec 2007) and a few days after this thread started.

The reason I asked is because I had surfing difficulty during that entire period and on numerous occasions had run Ping Plotter to try and determine where the system was falling apart.

My first two hops ( (1) my router (2) the Modem\UBR) never resolve but there were definitely one or two extra unresolved hops on the front end eg before the first major network hop. I stupidly remember thinking why 4 not 2 unresolved hops but failed to even look up let alone save.

The placement of anything was either in the UBR or most likely the collective UBR's gateway (major city).

That period of time was rubbish surfing with lag and packet loss almost constantly. Magically it stopped within days of this thread and the surfing has been back at excellent speeds ever since.

I cannot provide any evidence for whatever happened but without doubt this thread was either coincidental or instrumental in getting the service back to normal.

If what I saw was a Phorm test then we have few worries because it cripples the service to such a degree that I insisted on an engineer's visit to tweak power levels and change the modem and then entered into a war with retentions. People will find what I endured intolerable and without doubt complaints will go through the roof with potentially thousands leaving. It really was that bad with stuck pages, part loaded pages and DNS resolution failures.

That "supposed" national outage was never explained, did not affect everyone and IMO was long enough to bolt on something we knew nothing about.

I am in an ex-NTL area.

[Kursk]

Yep, I remember that period well. My connection went down in early December and was trash all through that month. The forums were rife with talk of National outage. Was there a VM/Phorm trial at that time? It certainly fits in with the modem LED's frantically firing but not able to lock on. I'm ex-NTL too.

[mark777]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Yep, I remember that period well. My connection went down in early December and was trash all through that month. The forums were rife with talk of National outage. Was there a VM/Phorm trial at that time? It certainly fits in with the modem LED's frantically firing but not able to lock on. I'm ex-NTL too.

Do you remember anyone posting any tracert info in those forums?

-------

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34226371-post1.html

"I know it's within the NTL/TW/VM network because the IP before and after it belong to them."

Feb 07 though. It's probably worth having a good search.

[Ravenheart]

With the last few days news I'm now almost certain Virgin have done a trial, I do seem to remember a friend kept getting a reference to sysip, which if I remember right is a phorm domain. I was digging on the net to see if I could find any references to it on the VM network, I've had no luck so far but this forum has someone reporting a sysip problem on BT on June 28, which I think must be last year rather than 2006

http://hubbub.labs.bt.com/?pagename=viewpost&id=24712

also found something here relating to 2006/ 2007

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=25456

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=152409

[Bobcat]

I've noticed a poll on ISPreview's website, http://www.ispreview.co.uk/, on whether or not users would leave their ISP if it adopted Phorm/Webwise. I was pleased to see that out of 748 votes 57.8% voted yes but amazed to see that the next highest number was 22.5% who asked what Phorm was. The message just doesn't appear to be getting out. I spoke to a young computer literate graduate today who makes great use of the internet and the web who hadn't heard of it. I've asked him and everyone I know to pass the word along and to educate others.

I see that the question posed by David Carnegie (Earl of Northesk) to the DfBERR has dropped off the unanswered questions list.

Two new questions are there on the list dated 24th April...

FIRST QUESTION... The one we all want answers to!!

Earl of Northesk to ask Her Majesty’s Government which law enforcement agency, Department or other statutory body has responsibility for investigating and prosecuting possible criminal breaches of (a) the Data Protection Act 1998, (b) the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, and (c) the Computer Misuse Act 1990. [CO] HL3267

- "CO" - Which department is that then?

AND THE SECOND... The detail of the answer is eagerly awaited!

Earl of Northesk to ask Her Majesty’s Government whether any official or Minister in the Home Office has offered written or oral advice to any executive of the company Phorm as to the legality of their targeted advertising software product; if so, what was the advice; in what circumstances was it given; and what was the justification for giving it. [HO] HL3268

- "HO" = Home Office I'm sure.


How does it work? > http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/b...en_answers.cfm

And where is the answer to his first question?

Hansard, online here: http://www.publications.parliament.u...08042112001130

Monday 21 April 2008
Advertising: Internet
The Earl of Northesk asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are taking any action on the targeted advertising service offered by Phorm in the light of the questions about its legality under the Data Protection and Regulation of Investigatory Powers Acts. [HL2635]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (Baroness Vadera): The Office of the Information Commissioner made a statement on 3 March 2008 that it was in discussion with one company about the nature of its service and the way it uses information about ISP customers. My department will consider the continued relevance of the current safeguards and legislation in the light of the outcome of those discussions.

Hank

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Bonglet

Just got off the phone with vm who rang me to see what problem i had with phorm.

I explained what was happening why i didnt trust them and the guy was denying that they had undertook any trials with phorm then i pointed out that phorm had said themselves that all the 3 isps had undertook trials, then he changed story and said it only did trials on ex ntl area's (im ex-telewest) and they were fully inphormed about it before taking part.

Any ex-ntl'ers here who undertook or saw such a trial because first i have heard about it?.

further into the conversation he said if any future trials or deployment of phorm was done i would be fully inphormed i said he wouldnt need to as id be cancelling it straight away.
He also said that they have had lots of phone calls about the subject and were noteing and putting our points across to more senior positions.

The whole phone call just seemed a phone call to assure the customer that if anything happens you'll be inphormed, just wasnt reassuring enough for me sorry to say .

I am ex NTL Manchester I wasn't inphormed of any trials by phorm if they did use this on me I will be very annoyed.. I had a time where pages were always timeing out or very slow loading...

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Florence

I am ex NTL Manchester I wasn't informed of any trials by phorm if they did use this on me I will be very annoyed.. I had a time where pages were always timing out or very slow loading...

If this turns out to be true, Virgin Media would be in the crap up to there collective necks. Considering that a Senior Manager of Virgin Media has stated on the Newsgroups that they did not carry out any trials on the live network just shows that they are willing to lie to save there own collective necks.

This is the quote for future evidence from the news groups

>> The networks architects have had a look at the technology in the lab
>> (which is what I presume the analyst is referring to), but as stated
>> previously we're happy to re-affirm that nothing has been trialled on
>> the live network.
>>
>
>...and no data has been passed to seed the OIX database?

Spot on. As stated previously we're looking at the technology, we
haven't done anything with regards to trials, using live data etc etc
etc.

The next few days are going to be interesting. As far as i am concerned if there is NO statement from VirginMedia from a Director about these alleged trials then i will honestly see it as a admission of guilt.

My reasons are simply that If a Director cannot categorically say that the trials never happened then they must be worried that they did.

[Frank Rizzo]

Ravenheart - there are many examples of users connecting to sysip.net in 2006 and 2007. The ones I managed to contact were all BT customers. I could not find any from non BT ISPs but that may not be conclusive.

BTW, the most revealing thread was on the techimo.com site. I was in conversation with someone who knew exactly what BT were upto.

He suggested at the time (Jun/Jul 07) that BT were doing testing with 121media aka phorm.

Unfortunately that caused the site admin to pull the thread with no explanation. When I posted a new thread asking why the first thread was pulled that was pulled too.

I never managed to contact the person who posted up the connection with 121media and BT as the thread was deleted and I couldn't remember his username.

It was his suggestion of a deal which got me on the scent of BT and Phorm.

Is there any way for us to find out for sure if they have trialled this because i am ex ntl and i have never had a damn thing of VM about phorm or any system like it. If it turns out they have what action can we take because i sure as hell will not be happy if they run a trial of anything like phorm and didn't explicitly notify users. Maybe this is why VM are being so damn quiet all the time they can't say anything negative or bin the deal without phorm then making it public they ran trials without users knowledge or consent.

[CaptJamieHunter]

As a reminder I have asked Neil Berkett to give me his written assurance that Virgin Media have never tested Phorm or other similar technologies on their network. The letter is sent by recorded delivery and will arrive on Monday morning.

The moment I get a reply it will be posted here.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by CaptJamieHunter

As a reminder I have asked Neil Berkett to give me his written assurance that Virgin Media have never tested Phorm or other similar technologies on their network. The letter is sent by recorded delivery and will arrive on Monday morning.

The moment I get a reply it will be posted here.

Thank you. I hope you get a reply.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by Sirius

If this turns out to be true, Virgin Media would be in the crap up to there collective necks. Considering that a Senior Manager of Virgin Media has stated on the Newsgroups that they did not carry out any trials on the live network just shows that they are willing to lie to save there own collective necks.

Yeah, but he's one of the guys who denied that STM was being trialled just weeks before it was brought in...

Either he's a liar (an allegation that got TruxData temporarily disconnected) or he hasn't been kept informed of developments in the past.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by mark777

Do you remember anyone posting any tracert info in those forums?

Sorry, need the mods to help with that. I remember reading moans on this forum from all over the Country and I was perversely happy that it wasn't just me. December 2007 trials look more and more probable. I smell a rat.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by ceedee

Yeah, but he's one of the guys who denied that STM was being trialled just weeks before it was brought in...

Either he's a liar (an allegation that got TruxData temporarily disconnected) or he hasn't been kept informed of developments in the past.

I get more and more worried everyday that VirginMedia HAVE been doing things behind the scenes with this Phorm spyware and are now at the point were they know they will be up to the necks in it if they are found out.