Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe

It seems to me that as an organisation, Virgin Media do not appear to know what they have got themselves into. Popper, can I use your Notice in the sample letters page I'm building on http://www.inphormationdesk.org?

Very good site there! I'll certainly be bookmarking that and recommending it over on BT Beta forums. Well done! I especially liked the list of Questions for BT. Very well chosen, and I don't think you will be getting answers on any of them.

With regard to those T&C and "new agreement" claims - BT constantly update their T&C's, usually very quietly, but a new contract is only initiated when we sign up for some new service and they are always up-front about the difference between being "out of contract" and in a fixed contract.

The real issue for the customer to remember, is that it doesn't really matter what the ISP's put in their T&Cs. If the terms and conditions are held to be unfair, or relate to what turn out to be illegal acts, they are unenforceable and then the whole contract becomes void.

If there is a unilateral change to the T&Cs while you are "bound" in a contract term, say having signed up to a new 12month or 18 month agreement, and the unilateral changes the ISP announces and imposes on you, are to your material disadvantage, even if they ARE legal, and even if they ARE fair, you are not bound to the changed contract and can leave without penalty.

---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 ----------

Originally Posted by The Other Steve

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo..._position.html

More from Charles Arthur, interestingly, following on from yesterday's deafening silence from BT, Phorm had this to say w/r/t the FIPR documents.

"FIPR is abusing its influence and promoting its own agenda by encouraging a frivolous debate about the legality of a legitimate e-commerce business. Internet users would be better served if FIPR focused on the benefits of the online technologies available today rather than undermine the online privacy debate and block technological progress. That would help people to make valid informed choices about the services they want to use."

So, not a refutation of the points, in any way, but straight on to the ad-hominem attacks. Rattled or what ?

And is it even possible to have a "frivolous debate about the legality of" something ?

Sounds like an epic fail to me. I don't think any decent PR would have let that statement pass, either, to combative, so perhaps Phorm have ditched their flying PR monkeys.

I think we should be encouraging Kent Ertugrul to say as much as possible, preferably live. He's turning into a great asset for the anti-Phorm/Webwise cause. I want to see more of this guy!

I've popped a comment on the Guardian blog.

[vicz]

Virgin needs to move quickly to refute the claims in the Charles Stanley document that it was involved in secret trials with Phorm. Otherwise it is a clear signal that its recent denials are false, and it too needs to be investigated as per BT.

[OF1975]

Judging from Phorms activities lately they seem very rattled. First the ad hominem attacks on Alexander by Kent at the Click interview. Now this latest outburst against the FIPR. Kent really does have an amazing talent and must be incredibly nimble to manage to regularly keep putting his foot in his mouth.

[Florence]

After talking to my mother today I was shocked and somewhat pleased to find out she still has her shares in BT...

She doesn't go to any AGMs as in her 80s this is difficult and all her votes have been cast by the chair ( to his gains no doubt) is it legal for me to attend the AGM as her representative this way taking her votes from the chair?
Can I ask awkward questions at the AGM?

Shame about not having any VM shares..

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 ----------

Also if BT are found guilty of illegally wiretapping the customers what effect will this have on shareholders who will be the ones by gripped by the round balls BT staff or shareholders?

If this is ok for me to attend I would need some help on really awkward questions to ask?

[fidbod]

Originally Posted by Florence

After talking to my mother today I was shocked and somewhat pleased to find out she still has her shares in BT...

She doesn't go to any AGMs as in her 80s this is difficult and all her votes have been cast by the chair ( to his gains no doubt) is it legal for me to attend the AGM as her representative this way taking her votes from the chair?
Can I ask awkward questions at the AGM?

Shame about not having any VM shares..

You will need a letter of authority to act as her proxy in the meeting. Companies usually distribute a pro-forma LOA for people in similar situations to use.

The shareholders will not be liable in any court action that is made against BT. The company staff and executive carry the legal risks associated with their actions. The share holders provide the capital that form the base of BT.

[Florence]

So it wil be legal for me to have some fun at BT's expense so to speak sure any shareholders asking questions about legality on phorm has to be answerd.

[wirecutter]

Hi this link was in my in box this morn.>> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/register/20...l-d1d76f9.html << what amazed me are the number of stars its got!

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by wirecutter

Hi this link was in my in box this morn.>> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/register/20...l-d1d76f9.html << what amazed me are the number of stars its got!

It's got a few more now! I have several sub accounts.
Just popping over to BT Beta Forums to canvas a few more.

[Portly_Giraffe]

Originally Posted by amateria

I'm thinking about drafting some more template letters, such as DPA subject access requests to send to iSPs - after all, every interception also entails processing of (probably) personal information and (perhaps) sensitive personal information. Maybe also a full set of RIPA notices for members of the public, commercial websites and individuals: letters to registered offices/company secretaries, commercial websites, individual websites, email footers, forum posting signatures. Do you think they would be useful -

I've now added sample letters and notices at http://www.inphormationdesk.org/sampleletters.htm
Thanks to all contributors.

Everyone, please provide any feedback or additional contributions!

[CaptJamieHunter]

Originally Posted by vicz

Virgin needs to move quickly to refute the claims in the Charles Stanley document that it was involved in secret trials with Phorm. Otherwise it is a clear signal that its recent denials are false, and it too needs to be investigated as per BT.

Both the Stanley document and straight questions about any testing are in the letter that's gone out to Neil Berkett.

And I've left a suitable response to Phorm in the Guardian blog.

[vicz]

If you can bear to plod thru the Virgin.feedback newsgroup a Virgin senior tech claims that the kit was trialled in their lab but never on the live network or with live data. I'm sure he believes what he says, but as is pointed out, other parts of the VM site continue to be a phorm spin-a-thon and there has been no public challenge to assertions in the CS paper, or to others that Phorm used data from VM trials to pre-populate OIX.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 ----------

I wonder if the 'exclusive sites' described in this article realise how exclusive they won't be if phorm goes ahead? http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle3671900.ece

[NTLVictim]

On a tangent, how come Sky haven't waded in with a "phorm free" sales campaign? Not like them to miss a trick.

[vicz]

maybe because they are operating their own 'what are you watching' technology on Sky+ ?

[Florence]

Originally Posted by NTLVictim

On a tangent, how come Sky haven't waded in with a "phorm free" sales campaign? Not like them to miss a trick.

Think you will find they are being crafty if the main three succeed then sky will join in the gravy boat..

[roadrunner69]

Originally Posted by NTLVictim

On a tangent, how come Sky haven't waded in with a "phorm free" sales campaign? Not like them to miss a trick.

You can bet your life that sky will dive in the trough quckly enough if bt & vm get the greenlight.