New trial Wigan Area

[broadbandbug]

Originally Posted by TraxData

For as long as i wish to use it, i suppose, im not gonna go and set a limit, im paying for a connection, if i wanna use it when im home, then i should be Able to without having 75% of it taken off me for wanting to use it for what it was actually made for, people dont go upgrading to 20mbit just to look at emails quicker, we upgrade because we want files faster...yet if we try doing so we get traffic managed...which makes it a complete waste of time...i want the old telewest/NTL days back, ireally do, VM really only had broadband going for it...and they have managed to royally screw that now...

You cant offer *unlimited* upto (cough) 20mbit connections then complain when users actually want to use it =/

But you do understand and agree that no ISP is financially able to build its infrastructure to manage 100% of the peak demand don't you? i.e. If a port is congested between 1600-2100, but is only 40% utilised outside of this time why would you upgrade it?
Therefore during the peak traffic there is either congestion (which by its nature will slow down everyone) or there is artificial means put in place to 'control' the demand to keep it within the capability of the network.

Which would you prefer?

If you are going to control demand, there are many ways to do so..

Would you prefer that VM 'strangle' NNTP & non commercial P2P (not Kontiki) Applications or slow down the speed of those that have downloaded the most over the previous 'time slot'?

I think we are all aware of the issues, but what are the sensible and financially viable solutions?

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

But you do understand and agree that no ISP is financially able to build its infrastructure to manage 100% of the peak demand don't you? i.e. If a port is congested between 1600-2100, but is only 40% utilised outside of this time why would you upgrade it?
Therefore during the peak traffic there is either congestion (which by its nature will slow down everyone) or there is artificial means put in place to 'control' the demand to keep it within the capability of the network.

Which would you prefer?

If you are going to control demand, there are many ways to do so..

Would you prefer that VM 'strangle' NNTP & non commercial P2P (not Kontiki) Applications or slow down the speed of those that have downloaded the most over the previous 'time slot'?

I think we are all aware of the issues, but what are the sensible and financially viable solutions?

If other european ISP's can do it, so can VM.

When living in france i was on 100mbit symetrical for around £50/month which was truely unlimited (as far as it goes anyway...)

When in japan i was on 1gbit/100 truely unlimited.

While those places may have had alot of money put into the infrastructure the point is still the same, if VM had bothered to upgrade like they should have instead of just shoving more people on an already overloaded network...then give big fat bonuses to people high up then we would not even be having this discussion.

Hell, even comcast over in the crapola of the US has finally started doing this, upgraded everyone to docsis2 and actually provide good enough upload speeds on top of it..and getting ready to roll out symetrical connections later on next year...and comcasts network was alot poorer than VMS.

So, really, what excuse do VM have? they just waste money and give themself's bonuses.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

I think we are all aware of the issues, but what are the sensible and financially viable solutions?

The first thing VM could do is admit that despite all the publicly available forecasts, they've massively under-estimated the data requirements of their broadband users; that, as a near-bankrupt business, there's no way they can raise enough investment to upgrade the network quickly enough to satisfy that demand in the near future, let alone the volume that'll likely be expected by customers over the next few years and apologise for their incompetence.

Oh and give an undertaking to accept no new connections to near-capacity UBRs and cancel their entire advertising and marketing budget.

Some would also suggest that it would be sensible for the entire board to resign but -- call me a softy! -- I'd not go quite that far. Just the CEO's severed head on stick would placate me.

[Mick Fisher]

Originally Posted by ceedee

The first thing VM could do is admit that despite all the publicly available forecasts, they've massively under-estimated the data requirements of their broadband users; that, as a near-bankrupt business, there's no way they can raise enough investment to upgrade the network quickly enough to satisfy that demand in the near future, let alone the volume that'll likely be expected by customers over the next few years and apologise for their incompetence.

Oh and give an undertaking to accept no new connections to near-capacity UBRs and cancel their entire advertising and marketing budget.

Some would also suggest that it would be sensible for the entire board to resign but -- call me a softy! -- I'd not go quite that far. Just the CEO's severed head on stick would placate me.

In reality they are much more likely to take a leaf out of Comcasts book and try to disable, through forged re-directs I think, all bittorrent traffic on the network and cure their lack of bandwidth problem in one foul swoop.

Although of course they may be too strapped for cash to obtain the necessary software/hardware to pursue even this avenue of attack.

[hokkers999]

Originally Posted by TraxData

I remember when 28.8k was blazingly fast... /showing age.

I also remember when 64k ISDN was all the rage, hmm those were the days.

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

Their connection running at full line rate for that time.. How long do you want to be able to run at full line rate for per 24Hours?

Funnily enough, 24 hours, precisely what I pay for.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by Mick Fisher

In reality they are much more likely to take a leaf out of Comcasts book and try to disable, through forged re-directs I think, all bittorrent traffic on the network and cure their lack of bandwidth problem in one foul swoop.

Call me paranoid, but I wonder if Phorm's clickstream profiler could identify bittorrent traffic?
Somebody shoot that idea down please? Quickly?

Although of course they may be too strapped for cash to obtain the necessary software/hardware to pursue even this avenue of attack.

I presume there are cable versions of Ellcoya filters?

This is all so reminiscent of the beginning of Pipex's demise years ago.
I'm wracking my brain to remember what they did next...

---------- Post added at 21:25 ---------- Previous post was at 21:18 ----------

Originally Posted by hokkers999

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

The first one I bought for my then employer cost over £200 -- a bloody fortune in those days...
But, my, was it fast!

Originally Posted by broadbandbug:
Their connection running at full line rate for that time.. How long do you want to be able to run at full line rate for per 24Hours?

Well no wonder you're not happy -- this is a contended service.

[piggy]

the sooner people pay for quantity and not speed the better it will stop people grabbing everything "because i can" a lot like the idiots at a free bar, drink till they fall over!! data should not be seen as fresh air it should have a value and then people might download in a more responsible manner.

a 10mb leased line costs approx 7-8k a year so people will get stm/fup/capped if they only pay £37 a month for 20mb,things will get a lot worse before anything gets better the industry has no money

Originally Posted by hokkers999

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------



Funnily enough, 24 hours, precisely what I pay for.

If i answer that, i'll show just how old i am

[broadbandbug]

Originally Posted by hokkers999

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------



Funnily enough, 24 hours, precisely what I pay for.

But that is not what you pay for.. You pay for a contended broadband internet service that has the ability to burst to 20Mb/s and has a FUP to deal with excessive use.. It is not a 20Mb/s leased line

[slowcoach]

Originally Posted by hokkers999

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

My first modem was a 300/75 acoustic coupler, hey, whatever it takes.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by slowcoach

My first modem was a 300/75 acoustic coupler, hey, whatever it takes.

/aol

It was great fun dialing into BT Gold to pick up email.
I remember the thrill of discovering that one included some work, all the way from Geneva!

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

But that is not what you pay for.. You pay for a contended broadband internet service that has the ability to burst to 20Mb/s and has a FUP to deal with excessive use.. It is not a 20Mb/s leased line

While I don't disagree with that comment, it would help a lot, in my opinion, if VM would stop using the word 'unlimited' & the phrase 'unrestricted downloads' in their ad copy - especially when people are so bad at sharing, these days

[pentode]

One thing you might bear in mind is, with BB costing only £4.50/m for new customers, this will cause traffic congestion as more people join and all the existing customers will suffer...

... one, they won't get a cheaper service and it'll be us what suffers all the traffic congestion. Don't forget all the free upgrades 4Mb users and above are getting... those on 2mb gets nowt'.

dave

[broadbandbug]

Originally Posted by pentode

One thing you might bear in mind is, with BB costing only £4.50/m for new customers, this will cause traffic congestion as more people join and all the existing customers will suffer...

... one, they won't get a cheaper service and it'll be us what suffers all the traffic congestion. Don't forget all the free upgrades 4Mb users and above are getting... those on 2mb gets nowt'.

dave

There are millions of pounds worth of upgrades being done to ensure sufficient bandwidth is available for the upgrade of 4Mb/s to 10Mb/s and any new customer additions from sales promos.

M Tier will have its day.. But because there are so many customers on this Tier it will not be for some time to come!

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

There are millions of pounds worth of upgrades being done to ensure sufficient bandwidth is available for the upgrade of 4Mb/s to 10Mb/s and any new customer additions from sales promos.

M Tier will have its day.. But because there are so many customers on this Tier it will not be for some time to come!

Is that why there are rumours that over usage letters are on there way out to some customers who dared to use there broadband for more than checking there mail