New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!

[Sput]

Originally Posted by trevortt

Bethere are supposed to be a good ISP.

Their 24 Meg service at £18 per month looks great but unfortunately they are not available in my area.

[chickendippers]

Originally Posted by Paranoimia

I say to Virgin: Sorry, but that's not my problem. If I'm paying for a 20MB connection, I should be able to run it at full capacity 24/7 if I so choose; that's NOT abusing the network, it's simply making full use of a service that I am paying for. You need to upgrade your network accordingly. If you don't have the capacity, don't offer the service.

If I spend the equivalent of 5 days of the month being forced to run on a 5MB connection because your network can't support the advertised speeds, then you should adjust my bill downwards accordingly.

As it is, you will have two p***ed-off customers instead of one. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is NOT the way to do things.

Residential broadband is a contended service, you have to share it between other people, that's why it's so cheap. If you found out your connection was being slowed down by your next door neighbour downloading 24/7, I'm guessing you wouldn't be happy?

If you don't want to share your connection with anyone else you can shell out several hundred pounds a month and have your own dedicated line

[scottish_stu]

Originally Posted by Sput

Like you I am not a heavy user and so I object the the vicious throttling that they propose to introduce to everyone.

To be honest, I thought those complaining about STM were just moaning for the sake of it, but now I've realised I'm wrong - and many of you are right.

To quote VM's website, it specifically says here: "What does unlimited broadband mean? No download limits. Unlike some of our competitors, you get unlimited downloads as a basic right so you can load up on music, films...whatever you're into."

I'm at work all day, and don't use consoles etc so considered size L to more than meet my needs, but with this new policy I can only really download ONE DVD length movie of decent quality (paid for, of course) during evening/weekend hours.

Not my idea of "loading up on music, films...whatever I'm into." Fair enough it's not in Edinburgh yet, but that's not a way to run a network. In fact, that makes it even more unfair penalising users based on their geographic location.

Keep up the pressure on VM guys.

[Sput]

Originally Posted by chickendippers

Residential broadband is a contended service, you have to share it between other people, that's why it's so cheap. If you found out your connection was being slowed down by your next door neighbour downloading 24/7, I'm guessing you wouldn't be happy?

If you don't want to share your connection with anyone else you can shell out several hundred pounds a month and have your own dedicated line

The points you make are perfectly valid but these are not the point of this debate. Of course we would all be unhappy if a neighbour was downloading 24/7. A more pertinent question is whether Virgin should solve this problem by placing restrictions upon EVERYONE for the behaviour of the few? Virgin claim that only 5% of it's customers cause such problems so would it not be better for Virgin to enforce it's own Acceptable Use Policy:-

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html...ptableuse.html

and restrict the 5% of offenders rather than the 95% of non offenders?

I contend that taking action against the offenders is the fairest and most equitable solution.

[Mick Fisher]

Originally Posted by Sput

The points you make are perfectly valid but these are not the point of this debate. Of course we would all be unhappy if a neighbour was downloading 24/7. A more pertinent question is whether Virgin should solve this problem by placing restrictions upon EVERYONE for the behaviour of the few? Virgin claim that only 5% of it's customers cause such problems so would it not be better for Virgin to enforce it's own Acceptable Use Policy:-

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html...ptableuse.html

and restrict the 5% of offenders rather than the 95% of non offenders?

I contend that taking action against the offenders is the fairest and most equitable solution.

Agreed but it would not be in VM's interest.

STM has nothing to do with improving the average users experience. It has everything to do with allowing VM to continue overloading the network with new punters and endeavouring to lock them into 12 month contracts without upgrading or with only limited upgrades to the network.

Imo the income from this practice is probably the only thing keeping them afloat while they wait anxiously for their handout from Phorm.

[Sput]

Originally Posted by Mick Fisher

Agreed but it would not be in VM's interest.

STM has nothing to do with improving the average users experience. It has everything to do with allowing VM to continue overloading the network with new punters and endeavouring to lock them into 12 month contracts without upgrading or with only limited upgrades to the network.

Imo the income from this practice is probably the only thing keeping them afloat while they wait anxiously for their handout from Phorm.

Regrettably I think you are right and so our ability to resolve the problem is somewhat limited.

[Paranoimia]

Originally Posted by chickendippers

Residential broadband is a contended service, you have to share it between other people, that's why it's so cheap.

Cheap? I certainly don't think it's cheap. Not considering what we in the UK get for our money, compared to places like Japan, much of the US, and certain areas of Europe. By comparison, broadband in the UK is almost archaic, and ridiculously over-priced.

If you found out your connection was being slowed down by your next door neighbour downloading 24/7, I'm guessing you wouldn't be happy?

I agree 100% - but that's the point I'm making. We should not be in a position where one person's usage affects another's. If someone is paying for 20MB broadband, then that is what they should get 100% of the time, regardless of how they use it. The price doesn't drop, so why should the speed?

As I said, they should be looking to invest our money into improving the network so that contention isn't an issue, and we all get what we're paying for. If they're going to deliberately cut our connection speed to way below what we're paying for, then they need to start adjusting the bills accordingly.

To use Sput's petrol analogy, if you paid for 20 litres of petrol but only received 5, you would have every right to demand a partial refund. In fact, off the top of my head, I can think of no other business where a company can knowingly and deliberately provide you with less than you've paid for, and still charge you full price.

If it were honest, the Virgin marketing blurb would say something like: "Superfast 20MB broadband, with unlimited downloads... unless your neighbours complain, in which case we'll only give you 5MB, but we'll still charge you the same price."

[Sput]

Originally Posted by Paranoimia

Cheap? I certainly don't think it's cheap. Not considering what we in the UK get for our money, compared to places like Japan, much of the US, and certain areas of Europe. By comparison, broadband in the UK is almost archaic, and ridiculously over-priced.




I agree 100% - but that's the point I'm making. We should not be in a position where one person's usage affects another's. If someone is paying for 20MB broadband, then that is what they should get 100% of the time, regardless of how they use it. The price doesn't drop, so why should the speed?

As I said, they should be looking to invest our money into improving the network so that contention isn't an issue, and we all get what we're paying for. If they're going to deliberately cut our connection speed to way below what we're paying for, then they need to start adjusting the bills accordingly.

To use Sput's petrol analogy, if you paid for 20 litres of petrol but only received 5, you would have every right to demand a partial refund. In fact, off the top of my head, I can think of no other business where a company can knowingly and deliberately provide you with less than you've paid for, and still charge you full price.

If it were honest, the Virgin marketing blurb would say something like: "Superfast 20MB broadband, with unlimited downloads... unless your neighbours complain, in which case we'll only give you 5MB, but we'll still charge you the same price."

Well done. An excellent summary of how we all feel about less than accurate marketing that takes place with broadband. Keep up the good work.

[wizz]

I am now really pi***d off.
I have been traffic shaped for the last four hours because I have had the audacity to download at 400kb on my 4mb line !!

I needed some data urgently...so I paid a premium (time limited) to access a fast server to collect the data I required. I have only ever done this once before in six years because I really don't like paying twice for something.

So I'm not only paying "top dollar" for a crap service...but I'm loosing the advantage of a fast download service.

I never contracted to traffic shaping in any form...I signed up for a 4mb line, which I am not getting.

So what can I do about it ??????

[hokkers999]

Originally Posted by trojjer

Damn, that's really taking the cake -- they want to throttle us for 15 out of the 24 hours in a day?!

[snip]

So go get yourself a bit-torrent client, head over to ubuntu.com, find a tracker and get downloading copy after copy after copy of the distro .iso image.

If they want to prat me about, I'm going to suck down every single last byte I possibly can.

[the-cable-guy]

i am a heavy user however even if i dont download owt i still get throttled.

[Kellargh]

Aren't you at least happy you don't have to put up with adsl? I'm meant to get 4.5mbps but I get 1.9!! Wish I could get Virgin...

[the-cable-guy]

lol mate you dont want it trust me.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by wizz

I have been traffic shaped for the last four hours because I have had the audacity to download at 400kb on my 4mb line !!

I'm fairly sure that your connection speed was capped by STM not because you downloaded "at 400kb" but because you exceeded the *quantity* limit.

So what can I do about it ??????

If you were in a hurry to get somewhere and chose to pay extra to hire a taxi (rather than wait for a bus) but then both your taxi and the bus got stuck in a traffic jam with no alternative route, what would you do?

---------- Post added at 15:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ----------

Originally Posted by hokkers999

So go get yourself a bit-torrent client, head over to ubuntu.com, find a tracker and get downloading copy after copy after copy of the distro .iso image.

If they want to prat me about, I'm going to suck down every single last byte I possibly can.

You realise that all you'll be doing is reducing the connection speeds for your neighbours and other users on the same UBR?
Okay so VM might get a few more phone calls (at the premium rate) from frustrated customers but do you think that'll change anything?

Seems like a particularly unhelpful suggestion -- hope you don't live anywhere near me!


---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ----------

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy

i am a heavy user however even if i dont download owt i still get throttled.

If that's really the case, I'd suggest you contact Tech Support as it could mean there's a problem with the STM settings for your UBR.

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:06 ----------

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy

lol mate you dont want it trust me.

Dunno about you but I experienced years of continual frustration with ADSL (everything from pathetic service from BT to incompetent and rip-off ISPs) but since joining VM I've had a reliable and fast (within 90% of maximum speeds) connection with only three short disconnections in the last two and a half years.

I'd hate to have to return to ADSL.

[the-cable-guy]

Originally Posted by ceedee

I'm fairly sure that your connection speed was capped by STM not because you downloaded "at 400kb" but because you exceeded the *quantity* limit.



If you were in a hurry to get somewhere and chose to pay extra to hire a taxi (rather than wait for a bus) but then both your taxi and the bus got stuck in a traffic jam with no alternative route, what would you do?

---------- Post added at 15:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ----------



You realise that all you'll be doing is reducing the connection speeds for your neighbours and other users on the same UBR?
Okay so VM might get a few more phone calls (at the premium rate) from frustrated customers but do you think that'll change anything?

Seems like a particularly unhelpful suggestion -- hope you don't live anywhere near me!


---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ----------



If that's really the case, I'd suggest you contact Tech Support as it could mean there's a problem with the STM settings for your UBR.

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:06 ----------



Dunno about you but I experienced years of continual frustration with ADSL (everything from pathetic service from BT to incompetent and rip-off ISPs) but since joining VM I've had a reliable and fast (within 90% of maximum speeds) connection with only three short disconnections in the last two and a half years.

I'd hate to have to return to ADSL.

iv spoken to VM about it in the past & all that they could say was dont download at all then. my connection has been p*ss poor, its taken them just under three years & five modems later to be able to give me a connection thats on 24/7 without cutting off at least four times a day.