Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Mesmer]

Originally Posted by bigsanta11

It seems Mr Ertugrul has finally came round to our side of thinking,as he's signed the downing street online petition.

petitions.pm.gov.uk

On closer analysis it appears that a Mr Kent Ertugrul has signed it twice! Could this be taken as a sign of a rephormed sinner?

[Bonglet]

Dont worry hank the new report has just popped Phorms buisness model for good .

According to there 100 people surveyed though people want it, so when a webwise cd pops through your letterbox you know what to do .

[CWH]

Evening,
As mentioned previously, Virgin media keep saying 'nothing has been decided'. However, within the last couple of days, Lynn Millar CFO of Phorm has been quoted as saying:
“Our three ISP partners have strongly reassured us that they are in
no way reconsidering their decision to deploy or are in any way reducing
their level of commitment to the project�

Someone somewhere isn't being totally honest; now why doesn't that surprise me!

Colin

[bigsanta11]

Originally Posted by popper

X Chris X


from the network POV, there can be NO patch, as the facts as they are means every single bit of your datastream passes to the ISP/Phorm DPI kit.

a simplifyed layout looks something like this:

your CM<===>the VM UBR<===>Phorm Gifted Deep-Packet-Inspection-Kit-For-Profit<===>the website you asked for.


as you can see, you might not know it, but your being intercepted at all times once it goes live even if they dont pass your copywrited datastream on to the anonymiser kit and instead divert it to were you wanted to go in the first place, after setting and storing/reading an illegal cookie without permission etc.

As he's using the xbox live service,which is used for online gaming and to purchase film/tv programmes ( and both support using credit & debit card payments through the console )on his games console,this ,i believe,doesn't use cookies at all.

So how on earth can all these users protect themselves ,when there's no way for them to opt out or not opt in ?

[OF1975]

Hank, if you wish you can use my letter I sent to the computer crime unit of the met police this evening as a template to do similar or to send it to your local police station. Its not the best letter I have ever written but it could be used as a basic template that you would rewrite and build upon. It can be found here:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34...-post4575.html

OF1975: Good letter to the Police - looking forward to the response you get!

Alex: Well done on the BBC Click piece, hope they show Kent for what he is. Sorry about your car. You really should have a mobile phone lol - understand your principled position on it.

Great news on the FIPR!! Keep it up everyone

ISPy - No thanks. Phorm? NO. STOP. DO NOTWANT.

Hank

[popper]

Originally Posted by Hank

I followed the email route to the Attorny General's Office. This is, I'm afraid, what was said...

I said:

// MY EMAIL //
In 2006 and 2007 BT now openly admits that it secretly intercepted thousands of their customer's communications. They repeatedly state that no personal information was retained or used but I do not understand why this precludes them from investigation and possibly prosecution because as I understand it, the interceptions they carried out are in direct contravention of the law, according to 'RIPA'

The Information Commissioner directed complaints to the Home Office. The Home Office has stated that they have no investigatory powers and cannot require an investigation by the police. I have seen no indications that BT customers who know they were affected have achieved any action from their local police services.

I therefore write to you to ask whom is responsible for ensuring that the actions of individuals and the BT plc company are properly investigated because it would appear that this is being ignored. If they broke the law, this cannot be allowed to remain unchecked.

What steps have been taken already? What process is being followed?

Thank you.
// END OF MY EMAIL //

They replied:

// EMAIL FROM NAMED INDIVIDUAL xxxxx.xxxxx@attorneygeneral.gsi.gov.uk //

Thank you for your email to the Attorney Generals Office, your email has been passed to me for reply.

The Attorney General is principal legal advisor to government and as such is unable to offer legal aid or assistance to individuals, this office does not perform a investigatory function and in regards to your request we are unable to assist.

If you feel a crime has been committed then you should contact your local police authority for them to investigate. If you have not already tried them you could also contact the Office of Telecommunications Ombudsman, their web site address is www.otelo.org.uk

Yours Sincerely

Correspondence Unit
// END QUOTE //

So, who are we saying should actually be doing something about investigating and bringing BT to account for this???

Hank

thats obviously just a stock answer by an aid , its clear they dont understand the points raised as can be sumised by the reference to OTELO.

infact its in the same vain as simons at the home office and the ICO office first replys when this all started..

obfuscateing the senders email in this case means we cant follow up and explain it and all the points raised in detail to them.

perhaps next time you write any letters in reply, you make sure you include the fact you will be publishing it in full on the cable forum unless asked not to, to make it clear we require direct meaningful answers to the question's put.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by SimonHickling

I actually think that somebody at Phorm has had a good thinking head on for this.

Nothing they are doing is illegal (if what we've been told is true). All the illegality occurs before the "Phorm servers" get the data. Unless inciting a breach of RIPA is illegal, it is only the ISP which is guilty of interception, they are also the ones processing personal data to anonymise it.

No doubt the whole "Phorm system" is being very bad, but Kent and co. have palmed off the naughty bits to the ISPs.

As far as I can understand, the system works using a Phorm controlled machine placed in each ISP's network. The machine is only controlled by Phorm. The ISP has no access.

I could be wrong, but, tbh, if this is true, I am staggered that ANY isp would risk their customer's security in such a way. I know for a fact that we wouldn't where I work. OK, I realise that we have to monitor security more tightly, being a corporate environment, but still..

Also, assuming it is true, if someone were to hack one of these machines, I am pretty sure it could be persuaded to deliver spyware to every user. If any ISP were to be found infecting their users in that way (and the users *would* blame the ISP, not Phorm), they would probably be forced out of business.

[smcicr]

Just wanted to say that I am currently experiencing a warm glow and sense of deep satisfaction having just read the FIPR report - readybrek for the soul that is.

Not sure if it's just me but it semed to read as though the author had a particular tone of voice - a sort of 'look, exactly how many different ways do I have to spell this out to you - it. is. illegal.' tone if you know what i mean

Made my day - thanks to whoever posted the link to it (i forget)

[popper]

http://www.links.org/?p=318#comment-164632

[OF1975]

Originally Posted by Hank

OF1975: Good letter to the Police - looking forward to the response you get!

Thanks. Am sure it was full of grammatical errors but I figured now we have had it clarified that the Home Office view this as firmly being up to the police to investigate (and in my opinion the Home Office is abdicating its duty to ensure the police apply the law in this case) I figured it was time to finish the letter so that hopefully we get some kind of written response from them this time. If others send letters too then maybe they will do something.

[popper]

ElReg has been slow to update the comments this afternoon, i smell a big news story being written by chis

its also werth noting charles hasnt been updating the Phorm stories since the PIA, now that is interesting given all the new information we have supplyed him with,MP's,MEP's Alexander's Click! posts, the ElReg story,ORG,LBT etc.

[Wild Oscar]

Not sure if this has been posted before .. this is such a huge thread to look through now ..

This blogger has posted loads of questions to Phorm, and got answers .. 52 of 'em ..

http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/

[Rchivist]

I've forwarded the FIPR links to technology correspondents Charles Arthur of the Guardian (direct email) and Rory Cellan-Jones of the BBC via the BBC news site feedback page - might as well get mainstream as quickly as possible.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Wild Oscar

Not sure if this has been posted before .. this is such a huge thread to look through now ..

This blogger has posted loads of questions to Phorm, and got answers .. 52 of 'em ..

http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/

yes, its a shame he's on a perental Sevatical as he could have been very useful in getting the house and the westminster village to respond....