Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Cameraman]

As I understand it "opting out" will just stop you receiving the ads it will not stop your connection being "watched.. And you would have to accept an "opt out" cookie on every browser on every pc in your house, this cookie could well be removed by anti spyware programs leaving you "opted in". The only way to be sure is to use an ISP that does not subscibe to Phorm. So perhaps it would be a good idea to vote on who will stay with Virgin and who will leave. Just looked at the sky user forum and 82% say they will leave Sky if they sign with Phorm. If the same goes for Virgin it could have very serious effects on their future.

[JackSon]

Welcome cameraman

Don't worry, this board is on the same wavelength as you

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...phorm-isp.html

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by JackSon

Woah, that is quite a turn of tone! That concerns me more than their initial response for some reason

Sorted now - paranoia attack over! It wasn't the man on the grassy knoll.

Emails arrived in the wrong order. When I clicked the Not satisfied button, they sent me an email about me not being satisfied with my selected book recommendations. THEN they sent me an email telling me to ignore the earlier correspondence.

So in order of sending

1st response - the Phorm boilerplate stuff indicating Amazon would appear to be in OIX.net
2nd response - (after I clicked the not satisfied button and warned them how I felt about Phorm) - an irrelevant message about the recommendations list and sorry I wasn''t happy with it
3rd response - a "please ignore our earlier message" which I suspect refers to response number 2.

I may get a number 4 of course, but I think the overall message is - "we're part of Phorm and its wonderful"

Of course they are free to contradict that.

BT have promised me a response to my question about whether I am safefrom prosecution or breaching the T&C's of the sites of Amazon, Sky and BBC sites if I was to browse them while signed in to Phorm or having my traffic diverted even if I was signed out. I'll be back.

[dav]

Originally Posted by Cameraman

As I understand it "opting out" will just stop you receiving the ads it will not stop your connection being "watched.. And you would have to accept an "opt out" cookie on every browser on every pc in your house, this cookie could well be removed by anti spyware programs leaving you "opted in". The only way to be sure is to use an ISP that does not subscibe to Phorm. So perhaps it would be a good idea to vote on who will stay with Virgin and who will leave. Just looked at the sky user forum and 82% say they will leave Sky if they sign with Phorm. If the same goes for Virgin it could have very serious effects on their future.

Welcome Cameraman.

It's interesting that I have seen no results from user poles that even remotely welcome the Webwise system. I wonder why that is

[mark777]

Originally Posted by JackSon

Welcome cameraman

Don't worry, this board is on the same wavelength as you

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...phorm-isp.html

And please come back and contribute to this thread as well.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Cameraman

As I understand it "opting out" will just stop you receiving the ads it will not stop your connection being "watched..

And you would have to accept an "opt out" cookie on every browser on every pc in your house, this cookie could well be removed by anti spyware programs leaving you "opted in".

The only way to be sure is to use an ISP that does not subscibe to Phorm.

So perhaps it would be a good idea to vote on who will stay with Virgin and who will leave.

Just looked at the sky user forum and 82% say they will leave Sky if they sign with Phorm.

If the same goes for Virgin it could have very serious effects on their future.

Cameraman

(put : eather side of it jackson etal)

you have it right Cameraman, the only real problem is that Virgin Media are the monopoly when it comes to UK cable, unlike the sky users that are already using a BT line and could just get their codes and move to another DSL supplyer on the same bit of wire, the cable users dont have that simple luxury.

perhaps its time to take the monopoly away and open up the network to real 3rd partys, after all the old AOL did have a rebanded ex-pre-VM CM deal so it can be done....

thats were using the current legal small claim options are oyr best collective options right now, alongside the other things we have already done.

readers need to start puting forward all the SC options we have available to us, and put the sequence of events to take, for such action to happen (much as the unlawful charges did recently in educating us all to the power we hold)...

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by dav

Welcome Cameraman.

It's interesting that I have seen no results from user poles that even remotely welcome the Webwise system. I wonder why that is

You've obviously missed the (unpublished) BT customer poll that revealed overwhelming customer enthusiasm for this system!!! (Beware - irony warning required)

Their response to me on the matter of their survey claims - quote - It is not common practise for us to release our market research. At this stage we have no plans to release the research conducted by BT but that is not to say we will not provide details in the future. I can confirm that it was conducted by a third party market research agency on behalf of BT and others. It explored both aspects of the Webwise service separately - less irrelevant advertising and the additional protection against online fraud. Furthermore we will of course also review how our up coming trial of the service goes. Ultimately what is important though is that our customers will have a clear choice. end of quote.

See - overwhelming support! You're obviously looking in the wrong places!

[dav]

Originally Posted by R Jones

<snip>

See - overwhelming support! You're obviously looking in the wrong places!

Silly me. I really must start accepting everything I'm told without question.
This ability to think for myself and converse with like-minded people is a real hinderance. I shall mend my ways and become a PR/spin sponge.

[Cameraman]

I've both phoned VM and emailed them and told them if/when Phorm starts I will have a look around for another provider I spend over a £100 a month for my Internet TV and Phone services so they are gonna need to earn lot's from Phorm. What next, selling the option to listen in to our phone calls to anyone who's got a few bob?. The lady I spoke to at VM said had never even heard of Phorm so I told her to google it. Sky must be laughing their nuts off at the number of customers VM are sending them, first the loss of TV channels and now this. I hate Sky but I can see another mass exodus to them on the horizon (I might be one of them)

[Kursk]

Hank posted the phrase "ISP spy on you" yesterday quoting Patricia Hewitt MP. If we adapt it slightly, we could use it as a strapline in our ongoing mission to boldly go where noone has gone before: "ISPy with my little eye..."

[Bonglet]

Ask them on how many people they polled and what age group they were, say you have done your research and the results they got are totally wrong and link them to many polls that have been made about not wanting phorm and if they refuse ask them for the list of questions that the people polled were asked .

Funny how talk talk, virgin media, bt and phorm all conducted this same mystery poll lmao check there webwise links/faq's.
My take on it means the research we conducted was from a whole 20 people during 1 friday afternoon in the closest tesco we could find, the form(phorm) and manner of the questioning put was misleading and was to inform and scare the general public that have little knowledge of such subjects, did they even check they were on the internet or was it a case of if you were?.

I guess they will see how accurate the polls are if it ever rolls out .

Heres a hint isp's ditch unwanted phorm and webwise - half your bloated and misleading advertising product expenditure and get down to delivering us a service that equals something like we pay before you realise the err's.

[CaptJamieHunter]

Originally Posted by dav

Silly me. I really must start accepting everything I'm told without question.
This ability to think for myself and converse with like-minded people is a real hinderance. I shall mend my ways and become a PR/spin sponge.

In other words "We're not telling you what spun out and vague questions we asked some punters who thought we still used Buzby in our adverts (showing my age there) because everyone would rip them to shreds and expose us for the shysters we are".

Virgin Media aren't handling this issue well either. They should have issued the statement read to me (I urged them to) and mailed to others recently through their press office but by failing to do that they are failing to address the building resentment against their perceived inactivity.

We need to make it crystal clear that the cookie opt out is a fraud. The only acceptable opt out is the network based opt out that keeps your data safe from Phorm.

It's time to take the message to all the communities that you are members of. Whether business or personal, mainstream or minority, get the word out to people that Phorm is a serious threat to privacy and the government is failing to do its duty to the people it serves.

[flashpaul]

I got a similar stock response from Amazon :-

"Please be informed that the issue you have mentioned has been forwarded to our IT department and we got the following information from them as:

What makes the technology behind OIX and Webwise truly groundbreaking is that it takes consumer privacy protection to a new level. Our technology doesn't store any personally identifiable information or IP addresses, and we don't retain information on user browsing behaviour. So we never know - and can't record - who's browsing, or where they've browsed.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused."

I responded that if they use Phorm then I will no longer use Amazon

Keep up the pressure !

[Cameraman]

Originally Posted by Bonglet

Ask them on how many people they polled and what age group they were, say you have done your research and the results they got are totally wrong and link them to many polls that have been made about not wanting phorm and if they refuse ask them for the list of questions that the people polled were asked .

Funny how talk talk, virgin media, bt and phorm all conducted this same mystery poll lmao check there webwise links.
My take on it means the research we conducted was from a whole 20 people during 1 friday afternoon in the closest tesco we could find, the form(phorm) and manner of the questioning put was misleading and was to inform and scare the general public that have little knowledge of such subjects, did they even check they were on the internet or was it a case of if you were?.

I guess they will see how accurate the polls are if it ever rolls out .

You hit the nail on the head with your research description. I remember years ago being offered a free tin of cat food while shopping, all I had to do was "sign to prove I had received it". When I looked at the form it said at the top "I agree that my cat prefers this brand of cat food to any other. So I had just become one of the 8 out of 10 users who's cat prefered whiskas. All without being asked the question !!!

[Bonglet]

agree totally.
strange thing is though most people still dont know about it like some sort of media dis information going on .

Exactly camerman - any company worth there salt should be sending a relevant question to ALL users of that isp stating what they want to do and if they agree not dictate by wrong questioning and making up stuff as they go along.

Lol just thought there is it the same 100 people survey's they use for family fortunes or just the isp's thinking of there fortunes .