Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Rchivist]

Here's the reply when I emailed Amazon about Phorm and their site: seems they may already be a Phorm partner.

"Dear Customer,

What makes the technology behind OIX and Webwise truly groundbreaking is that it takes consumer privacy protection to a new level. Our technology doesn't store any personally identifiable information or IP addresses, and we don't retain information on user browsing behaviour. So we never know - and can't record - who's browsing, or where they've browsed.

If you have any concerns, please highlight them to your internet service provider.

Thank you for shopping at Amazon.co.uk

Please let us know if this e-mail answered your question:

If yes, click here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/***
If not, click here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/***

Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept incoming e-mail.

To contact us about an unrelated issue, please visit the Help section of our website.
Warmest regards
name (anonymized by me!)
Amazon.co.uk"

A definite whiff of Phorm PR in that one I think. So Amazon look as if they are in bed with Phorm.

[Barkotron]

Damn, that's a shame, I buy loads of stuff off Amazon. Oh well, back to bricks & mortar shops it is.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Paul Delaney

Thing is the system's dead on the ground as an opt-in...

It would be legal as an opt-out if they wrote targetted advertising into the service contract for new customers - a sort of "love me, love my dog" clause.

Then they could gradually lose their current customer base...

NO it wouldnt, you really..., really need to understand this point and not forget it, then pass it on to the next person.

any terms/clause in any consumer contract (T&C) which effect your statutory rights are unlawful (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations) no matter how they word it, its an unlawful clause and so is void (unenforcable, un-actionable,not valid,.....) , and you can ask the OFT have them remove it forceably through court order if needs be etc.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_res...erms-consumer/
Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

of course, you always have option of the Small Claims N1 and on-line versions to use if you so wish, for a direct to the point option, bypassing the OFT or any other Govt Org,and put it before a judge yourself.

we really need to get to grips with this small claim option
and see were we can use it here, just as it was used on the banks....

alexander (when you get to read this OC), did those books clarify the injunction options against named persons inside the board rooms and other executives, and weather an SC can be used BTW?

theres a book on the CAG
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk....php?f=14&a=35
thats made to help you,not cheap though but cheaper than some of alexanders books
Small claims Procedure: A Practical Guide by Patricia Pearl
*****Highly recommended if you want to avoid mistakes*****


the online Small Claims is badly named, but you can also use it for all SC's not just money related, as many Unlawful charges users found out...
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/i...aims/index.htm

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...all_claims.htm

[OldBear]

Originally Posted by R Jones

<snip>Our technology doesn't store any personally identifiable information or IP addresses, and we don't retain information on user browsing behaviour. So we never know - and can't record - who's browsing, or where they've browsed.

If you have any concerns, please highlight them to your internet service provider.<snip>

Interesting reply, Robert.

What worries me there is the use of 'our' and 'we'! Let's face it, that reply was written by Phorm/Webwise, not some Amazon CS member.

I also love the buck passing comment sending you back to your ISP if you don't like it.

My wife and I spend a lot of money at Amazon; it'd be a shame to see them go for this crap.

OB

[Florence]

Originally Posted by OldBear

Interesting reply, Robert.

What worries me there is the use of 'our' and 'we'! Let's face it, that reply was written by Phorm/Webwise, not some Amazon CS member.

I also love the buck passing comment sending you back to your ISP if you don't like it.

My wife and I spend a lot of money at Amazon; it'd be a shame to see them go for this crap.

OB

Very True will have to start to look elsewhere for the items I buy from Amazon normally if they are in the OIX platform I shall not be buying from them again.

[OF1975]

I am home. The job interview went better than I thought but not as well as I would have liked. Oh well. Will find out by friday hopefully.

Just a quick post to let you all know that today I received a reply from the Earl of Northesk. At the bottom of the email is a UK parliament disclaimer about unauthorised disclosure etc etc.

Annoyingly I forgot to include in my letter (April 1st or thereabouts) that I wanted to publish his response so out of respect for him and the role he has played in this issue so far I wont copy his entire response here but let me just say that I am very pleased with the reply I got and this paragraph in particular:

"At risk of stating the obvious I share your concerns and anxieties in respect
of Phorm's targeted advertising software, not least (if the reports from The
Register are accurate) because of the manifest illegality of BT's trials of
their Webwise product."

All in all I am happy with the response I got and I think it bodes well for Alexanders future meeting next month. I wonder how Alexander is getting on down in London for his interview with Click. *crosses fingers and toes*

Well its been an exhausting day so time to go rest and watch TV for a bit. Be back later.

[PeteTheMusicGuy]

Originally Posted by R Jones

Here's the reply when I emailed Amazon about Phorm and their site: seems they may already be a Phorm partner.

"Dear Customer,

What makes the technology behind OIX and Webwise truly groundbreaking is that it takes consumer privacy protection to a new level. Our technology doesn't store any personally identifiable information or IP addresses, and we don't retain information on user browsing behaviour. So we never know - and can't record - who's browsing, or where they've browsed.

If you have any concerns, please highlight them to your internet service provider.

Thank you for shopping at Amazon.co.uk

Please let us know if this e-mail answered your question:

If yes, click here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/***
If not, click here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/***

Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept incoming e-mail.

To contact us about an unrelated issue, please visit the Help section of our website.
Warmest regards
name (anonymized by me!)
Amazon.co.uk"

A definite whiff of Phorm PR in that one I think. So Amazon look as if they are in bed with Phorm.

That reply stinks of Phorm PR. It looks i'll not be using Amazon again

Originally Posted by thebarron

And on our side the advertising industry seems to be poo pooing the whole idea.

http://www.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread....3044&from=1513

He he.. I've seen some of the advfn members @BadPhorm. Amazing that there are likeminded individuals who are able to hold their own in threads on investor sites or indeed anywhere where Phorm are likely to be preaching.

Perhaps their new strategy will involve mail-outs because they don't seem to be winning the battle of hearts and minds online. It seems that wherever their PR starts preaching there is going to be one of us to put the record straight.

[CaptJamieHunter]

Originally Posted by Florence

Very True will have to start to look elsewhere for the items I buy from Amazon normally if they are in the OIX platform I shall not be buying from them again.

Same here. If you're in OIX then I'm having nothing to do with you.

[Ravenheart]

I have emailed Amazon asking them if they have any links with the Phorm/Webwise system or if they are part of the Open Internet Exchange.

If they've signed up with Phorm I'll take my business elsewhere.

[number6]

Out of curiosity I just enabled webwise cookies and visited Amazon. A webwise.net opt out cookie has been added to my machine.

[Ravenheart]

I've had a reply

Thank you for writing to Amazon.co.uk.

Unfortunately, aside from what is already in print, we are not able to
provide the public with any information regarding the inner workings
of our company.

[CaptJamieHunter]

Originally Posted by Paul Delaney

He he.. I've seen some of the advfn members @BadPhorm. Amazing that there are likeminded individuals who are able to hold their own in threads on investor sites or indeed anywhere where Phorm are likely to be preaching.

Perhaps their new strategy will involve mail-outs because they don't seem to be winning the battle of hearts and minds online. It seems that wherever their PR starts preaching there is going to be one of us to put the record straight.

Perhaps people here should know that I have written to the FSA asking them to investigate Lynne Millar's comments on 18th April which may be seen as market abuse. The letter highlight's Phorm's previous conduct in relation to a number of issues.

Originally Posted by popper

NO it wouldnt, you really..., really need to understand this point and not forget it, then pass it on to the next person.

any terms/clause in any consumer contract (T&C) which effect your statutory rights are unlawful (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations) no matter how they word it, its an unlawful clause and so is void (unenforcable, un-actionable,not valid,.....) , and you can ask the OFT
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_res...erms-consumer/
Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

of course, you always have option of the Small Claims N1 and on-line versions to use if you so wish, for a direct to the point option, bypassing the OFT or any other Govt Org,and put it before a judge.

we really need to get to grips with this small claim option
and see were we can use it here, just as it was used on the banks....

alexander (when you get to read this OC), did those books clarify the injunction options against named persons inside the board rooms and other executives, and weather an SC can be used BTW?

theres a book on the CAG
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk....php?f=14&a=35
thats made to help you,not cheap though but cheaper than some of alexanders books
Small claims Procedure: A Practical Guide by Patricia Pearl
*****Highly recommended if you want to avoid mistakes*****


the online Small Claims is badly named, but you can also use it for all SC's not just money related, as many Unlawful charges users found out...
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/i...aims/index.htm

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...all_claims.htm

Isn't part of BT's stratergy to introduce a clause into the T&C's in order to satisfy legal issues?
I would have thought that was illegal and you say that it is. The problem lies in the fact that on several sensitive issues (RIPA) they seem to have proceeded on the advice of the people who uphold the law and what we thought was strictly forbidden turns out to be perfectly OK as long as the criterion in some clause - paragraph three, subsection two is applicable and it's transpired that pivoting on an interpretation of the law, BT just happen to meet it!

I would like to see how they will word any addition to their T&Cs - One thing you can guarantee is that a £1000.00 pound a day barrister will be writing it!

[manxminx]

Afternoon all

Ok, I've heard back from another of my MEP's

Written Question Tabled for the European Parliamentary Commission:

Author: Syed Kamal
Subject: Consumer Data Protection

Text:

I have been contacted by a constituent who is concerned with the protection of his personal data and the sale of customer information by companies for advertising purposes.

My constituent tells me that the internet service providers BT, Virgin Media, and Carphone Warehouse arranged a deal in February 2007 to sell personal information on customer web browsing to Phorm. Additionally, BT has admitted to secretly using customer data to test Phorm's advertising targeting technology in summer 2007, which compromised customers' web traffic and was originally covered up. Further information is available at http://qurl.co.uk/4a5u.

Is the Commission aware of the sale of customer data in the telecommunications industry, unbeknownst to and unauthorised by the customers concerned? Could the Commission please comment on the legality of such practices, especially with respect to EU laws on privacy

This is an excellent response, and shows that our letters are being read and acted upon. Obviously, as soon as I receive the EU Commissions written answer, I'll post it here.

Ali.