All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down

[shawty]

Originally Posted by supremus

Does this count as an admission that you're planning to commit a serious crime? See what I did there?

I'm curious though, why this bitterness towards pirates? Do you take an equally aggressive approach to co-workers, friends and family or even strangers in the street with illegal MP3s on their iPods?

No, I quoted your exact words and just took your illogical statement to its logical extreme to prove how it doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny.

Yes, it is, but that's not what you said. You said they were equally wrong. It's important to make a distinction in the context of what is being discussed here.

A man must have his honour.

As I said earlier, I find this subject quite fascinating, and have been reading up on it over the last week or so, though I'm still not entirely clear on a few details. If the mods will allow it, I would be interested for someone like yourself to list the various piracy systems available and their functionality. I wouldn't want you to mention any specific brands or how or where to acquire illegal services or equipment, but it might be educational for us to understand exactly what it is we're talking about here, when it comes to chipped boxes, cams, clones, AU, VOD, PPV and so forth. The impression I've got from reading up on this is that the vast majority of illegal boxes use some kind of software emulation to decode the scrambled channels, and that they have no access to non-linear VOD services. I haven't been able to confirm that there are any boxes around, certainly not in great numbers, that can access non-linear VOD, due to such boxes having to identity themselves to Virgin's servers to initiate a VOD request, though it does seem like certain boxes can scan for active VOD channels, and watch what other people have ordered, though they won't be able to pause and rewind.

I hope this isn't crossing any forum rules, if it can be kept in broad terms?

No, I didnt see what you did there, if you read the sentance again, you will see it was a question, with a question mark at the end of it.

Stealing is stealing. If people want to do it and keep it quiet, thats up to them. Its when they become public or start moaning about it that gets me. If you look in the copyright thread about downloading songs, you will see this.

So please tell me how murdering someone is stealing? I said stealing is stealing, which you clearly took out of context. Stealing anything is equally worng, as stealing is either right or wrong, and we all know which one it is.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by shawty

But havent you just answered our questions in this post that yes they do have better facilities to catch people. I dont know how it works, but if you were to say give Virgin the offending post and IP address, can they not work from there with their better facilities.

So where do we draw the line? Someone comes on here and say they stole a mars from tesco, should we give the supermarket a ring? Someone posts to say they're playing music over the legal volume limit, should we phone their local council and report them?

No, this is VM's issue. They have the money, resources and people to deal with those who steal their product.

[shawty]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

They still need evidence that someone has done something. A forum post is not evidence.

Of course it would be. Just as it would be if I walked into a Police station and said I had stole something. Ive admitted it, wether I was lying or not is another issue which if I was to lie would get charged for wasting Police time.

Anyway, we both clearly have different views on what should be done, so Ill just leave it there.

[supremus]

Originally Posted by Russ B

We've made our position very clear on this. We will not allow the discussion of how to 'chip' or 'clone' equipment, or the discussion which would give anyone the know-how to obtain services without paying for them. We're not stupid, we know that if people want to do this then the information is out there which will enable them.

If someone is intent on this sort of thing then I suggest they go to one of the other forums which allow such discussion.

Sometimes people post 'hints' on how to do it and what equipment to use - we will not allow this, neither will we permit "PM me for further details" types of discussion.

We're not out to be little hitlers or anything like that but we have some straightforward forum rules which we expect everyone to abide by.

Yes there is often discussion about illegally downloaded music etc but equally we do not allow discussion of "how and where".

Hope that clarifies things.

Yes, that's perfectly understandable. I was just curious about some clarification on the various issues, particularly in the context of my claim that piracy doesn't have an effect on legal subscribers in terms of bandwidth used for things like VOD services, which seemed to be a cornerstone of the "piracy is bad because..." argument. As I said, I wasn't looking for a how-to or even the mentioning of particular brands of boxes, just to fill my little information on the subject in the broadest possible terms.

Originally Posted by shawty

But havent you just answered our questions in this post that yes they do have better facilities to catch people. I dont know how it works, but if you were to say give Virgin the offending post and IP address, can they not work from there with their better facilities.

The forums terms and conditions ensure the users' privacy. CF would leave themselves open to legal problems, if they were to hand them over to a 3rd party. Rules like that work both to protect the users and the forum. If Virgin had evidence that CF were turning a blind eye to illegal activity, such as trading, through their forum, they would have a good case for insisting the records be handed over, or if CF were seen to support it, they could even obtain a police warrant to confiscate CF's servers and logs, but discussion of illegal activity is not illegal.

[ATMEGA163]

Originally Posted by supremus

Does this count as an admission that you're planning to commit a serious crime? See what I did there?

I'm curious though, why this bitterness towards pirates? Do you take an equally aggressive approach to co-workers, friends and family or even strangers in the street with illegal MP3s on their iPods?

No, I quoted your exact words and just took your illogical statement to its logical extreme to prove how it doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny.

Yes, it is, but that's not what you said. You said they were equally wrong. It's important to make a distinction in the context of what is being discussed here.

A man must have his honour.

As I said earlier, I find this subject quite fascinating, and have been reading up on it over the last week or so, though I'm still not entirely clear on a few details. If the mods will allow it, I would be interested for someone like yourself to list the various piracy systems available and their functionality. I wouldn't want you to mention any specific brands or how or where to acquire illegal services or equipment, but it might be educational for us to understand exactly what it is we're talking about here, when it comes to chipped boxes, cams, clones, AU, VOD, PPV and so forth. The impression I've got from reading up on this is that the vast majority of illegal boxes use some kind of software emulation to decode the scrambled channels, and that they have no access to non-linear VOD services. I haven't been able to confirm that there are any boxes around, certainly not in great numbers, that can access non-linear VOD, due to such boxes having to identity themselves to Virgin's servers to initiate a VOD request, though it does seem like certain boxes can scan for active VOD channels, and watch what other people have ordered, though they won't be able to pause and rewind.

I hope this isn't crossing any forum rules, if it can be kept in broad terms?

I dn't like to break any rules here, but as for VOD you can get these services with a modified box but there is a risk that vm can catch on. nuff said. interesting subject this.

Its all purely for educational purposes only modifying boxes and alike.

[the-cable-guy]

Originally Posted by Losttheplot

Why not? Its an embedded CAM, its Virgins to do with as they please. Sky did it when their encryption was changed.

they changed the cards not the encryption method.

---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:15 ----------

Originally Posted by shawty

Im going to smash your car window and hot wire it and borrow it, heck I might not even bring it back, but thats ok because if you can get it for free, why pay?

wtf

[handyman]

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy

you clearly dont know how cable works or how to read.

Unfortunately for you he does, and in particular this very system. I cannot believe you are arguing about a system with someone that has worked with it. (and not just any old cable system, he's worked on the one in question).

To quote a line from one of my favourite films/book.

You must be stupid, stupid, stupid

Ohh and after a quick pm from LTP I now know who he used to be on the .com forum and also the team that Frank set up all those years back.

He knows what he is talking about.....

[shawty]

Originally Posted by Russ B

So where do we draw the line? Someone comes on here and say they stole a mars from tesco, should we give the supermarket a ring? Someone posts to say they're playing music over the legal volume limit, should we phone their local council and report them?

No, this is VM's issue. They have the money, resources and people to deal with those who steal their product.

But then again, this site all though not officially tied to Virgin or NTL, as far as Im aware, have strong links to high up people working for Virgin/NTL and was made for the purpose to help people with the services from these companys. I personally think more should be done, wether thats let Virgin in on the matter or simply ban people for being so foolish to either admit they are stealing or being stupid and trying to look cool, surely this type of discussion that leads from someone stating this is not really whatt he site is all about. But thats what I think.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by supremus

The forums terms and conditions ensure the users' privacy. CF would leave themselves open to legal problems, if they were to hand them over to a 3rd party. Rules like that work both to protect the users and the forum. If Virgin had evidence that CF were turning a blind eye to illegal activity, such as trading, through their forum, they would have a good case for insisting the records be handed over, or if CF were seen to support it, they could even obtain a police warrant to confiscate CF's servers and logs, but discussion of illegal activity is not illegal.

Very good point. Another way to look at this is CF is taken quite seriously by the media outlets as a source of information of cable-related matters - the fact that Phorm post here is an indication of our reputation.

Imagine what it would do to our credibility if we allowed the discussion of how to obtain services without a subscription. A lot of hard work would go down the drain overnight.

---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ----------

Originally Posted by shawty

But then again, this site all though not officially tied to Virgin or NTL, as far as Im aware, have strong links to high up people working for Virgin/NTL and was made for the purpose to help people with the services from these companys. I personally think more should be done, wether thats let Virgin in on the matter or simply ban people for being so foolish to either admit they are stealing or being stupid and trying to look cool, surely this type of discussion that leads from someone stating this is not really whatt he site is all about. But thats what I think.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If VM needed our help in tracking these people down I'm sure they would have already asked us. But no such approach for information has been made by any company or individual.

[ATMEGA163]

Originally Posted by shawty

No, your just clearly making something up that I never said. Stealing is stealing, no matter what you steal, it is still wrong.

---------- Post added at 15:47 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------



Wouldnt you lose your no claims bonus? Can I sleep with your wife/GF/sister/mom at the same time? Hey, its free isnt it?

There is a line, m8 and you about to cross that line! If i can borrow you mum, sis, daughter would that be ok with you. ???what do you think. I smash your head into a pulp. don't even go there.

[the-cable-guy]

Originally Posted by shawty

No, your just clearly making something up that I never said. Stealing is stealing, no matter what you steal, it is still wrong.

---------- Post added at 15:47 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------



Wouldnt you lose your no claims bonus? Can I sleep with your wife/GF/sister/mom at the same time? Hey, its free isnt it?

this post is getting well out of hand now like.

[supremus]

Originally Posted by shawty

So please tell me how murdering someone is stealing? I said stealing is stealing, which you clearly took out of context. Stealing anything is equally worng, as stealing is either right or wrong, and we all know which one it is.

I already explained this. You equated the severity of two completely different types of offences simply by virtue of them both being against the law. Clearly this is not the case, but maybe my example was too extreme for you to grasp, so let me try a simpler one. Do you also think stealing a chocolate bar is as bad as stealing a car? I know they're both bad, but are they equally bad? And you have not yet answered whether or not this moral outrage of yours extends to people you know with illegal MP3s on their iPods.

[shawty]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Very good point. Another way to look at this is CF is taken quite seriously by the media outlets as a source of information of cable-related matters - the fact that Phorm post here is an indication of our reputation.

Imagine what it would do to our credibility if we allowed the discussion of how to obtain services without a subscription. A lot of hard work would go down the drain overnight.

---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ----------



I've said this before and I'll say it again. If VM needed our help in tracking these people down I'm sure they would have already asked us. But no such approach for information has been made by any company or individual.

Thats not to say you cant pass on the offending posts to Virgin and let them decide wether they want to take action. Its just my view on the subject.

[the-cable-guy]

Originally Posted by handyman

Unfortunately for you he does, and in particular this very system. I cannot believe you are arguing about a system with someone that has worked with it. (and not just any old cable system, he's worked on the one in question).

To quote a line from one of my favourite films/book.



Ohh and after a quick pm from LTP I now know who he used to be on the .com forum and also the team that Frank set up all those years back.

He knows what he is talking about.....

mate companies cant just go changing embedded CAMs they'd get sued if they did, plain & simple.

[shawty]

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163

There is a line, m8 and you about to cross that line! If i can borrow you mum, sis, daughter would that be ok with you. ???what do you think. I smash your head into a pulp. don't even go there.

But its free? I aint corssed no line, Im supplying you with things you dont want to hear because it affects you, when it doesnt affect you its fine, because its free.