Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Florence]

Thanks Stuart I have PMed him to sign up here to get help dealing with this jsut hope he does. I also pointed out that i had canceled and would leave before the month I originally joined cable BB.


For all others has anyone read this http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/080404phorm.pdf

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by popper

if you cant arrange good free wireless streaming net coverage on a UK campus your not trying hard enough

Indeed..

http://support.it.soas.ac.uk/connect/wireless

As they are part of the eduroam system, anyone who is a student of, or a member of staff at a college or uni that is also part of this system, can log in.

[popper]

hmm thats odd, that http://support.it.soas.ac.uk/connect/wireless doesnt seem to be a valid web connected url.

did you access it from inside janet or something, it doesnt work on vm dns at least.

[AlexanderHanff]

I have just been talking to a friend of mine who works for Google. I have asked him to talk to his superiors on the prospect of Google implementing an SSL version of their search pages.

This would be a great move by Google and would win them huge Kudos in the current climate not to mention it would be beneficial to them as well. By sending search requests over SSL they would be making it more difficult for their competitors (people like Phorm) to build profiles for targeted advertising.

Google could advertise it with something like "Google now offers secure searching!".

I really think it would be a great move for them.

My friend is going to talk to some of his colleagues and get back to me.

I am also going to contact Kim Cameron who wrote an article here, to field the idea of MSN search also offering SSL capability for the same reasons as Google.

I will try and find someone at Yahoo! as well.

Alexander Hanff

[mark777]

Secure search :-

https://ssl.scroogle.org/

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by popper

hmm thats odd, that http://support.it.soas.ac.uk/connect/wireless doesnt seem to be a valid web connected url.

did you access it from inside janet or something, it doesnt work on vm dns at least.

I actually got the link from the excel spreadsheet listing all the eduroam partners at http://www.ja.net/services/authentic...t-roaming.html


Seems the server is dead though..

[AlexanderHanff]

Yes I already know about scroogle, but I would rather not go through a 3rd party.

Alexander Hanff

[alferret]

Originally Posted by mark777

Secure search :-

https://ssl.scroogle.org/

Excellent

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by jca111

Yeah - i've noticed that in iii. But there are a load of positively spun News articles and results on there! Still saying they have "exclusive agreements" with Virgin Media - despite us all being told otherwise elsewhere! Starnge - someone is telling a half truth - but who????

Dunno why no movement either way tho.

Both are telling the truth IMHO. Phorm and VM have an exclusivity agreement in place in that VM will implement Phorm and has stopped evaluating competing technology. That exclusivity agreement gives VM the ability to opt out or not implement. Both can say what they are saying.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

I will try and find someone at Yahoo! as well.

Recommend you contact Tom Coates, who recently posted to his blog:

I'm deeply troubled by Phorm. This seems to be a service that could only be reasonably offered to a site owner, not an ISP...
I mean, otherwise, there's a precedent for surveillance where we just sort of have to take Phorm's word for the idea that they're not tracking personal or private stuff. It seems particularly sinister to me.

Tom is a very experienced internet fiend, terribly well connected and evidently a nice chap too.
He's based in London so might even be persuaded to make an appearance on Tuesday evening...

[AlexanderHanff]

emailed Tom:

Hello Tom,

I noticed on your blog that you are deeply concerned about the news in the UK with regards to Phorm.

As Yahoo's foundations are laid in the search engine industry do you feel that Phorm are a direct competitor? If so, have you thought about approaching your superiors with regards to Yahoo implementing SSL versions of their search pages?

In the current climate this would be a welcomed move by Yahoo by their users; but would serve twofold in making it more difficult for the likes of Phorm to leech off the back of your service in order to line their own pockets. If they are unable to intercept data from Yahoo search requests using Deep Packet Inspection technologies because they are sent over SSL, it makes their business model less viable and in turn helps to secure Yahoo's market share.

This would be a prime time for Yahoo to announce such a service and would, I expect, receive significant coverage in the online press.

I have contacted friends who work for Microsoft and Google who will be discussing the same idea with their superiors. If the three main search engines could take a united stance on this issue it would send a clear and resounding message to the general public that you do value privacy.

Sincerely

Alexander Hanff

[Ursine]

Hi All.
First post, don't know if this has been posted already, hope it's useful

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/...-independ.html

In a new twist, the most influential voice in the identity space has now spoken out on the topic: Microsoft's identity guru Kim Cameron agrees that 'opt-out' implementations of Webwise are in breach of the Laws of Identity. This is important - Kim is shaping the principles that will drive future privacy-protecting identity systems, and if Phorm is an inappropriate third-party in the online identity relationship then they have a real problem on their hands.
It's very likely that attention will shift to BT and VirginMedia, who have both been very quiet indeed about their 'opt-out' approach to Phorm (TalkTalk are off the hook because they have taken a more privacy-friendly 'opt-in' approach). The real test will be whether those providers start to lose business over this, particularly in Croydon and Ealing, where further trials of OIX and Webwise are due soon. That will show whether the protesters are representative of the broader user community, of if this is a niche issue that most users either don't understand or don't care about. Watch this space.


Interesting bit about Croydon & Ealing
Bear

[AlexanderHanff]

I wonder how long it will be before Phorm "reconfigure" the hardware during an "update" so that it changes search engine results to place their advertising partners at the top. If done correctly it would be very difficult to detect and prove.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

I just sent a follow-up email to Tom:

Hello again Tom,

I should have included this in my first email but it just occurred to me. It would be possible for Phorm (using the deep packet inspection technology) to alter search results on their way back to the user in order to place their advertising partners at the top of the list. If done correctly, I can't see how it would be detectable as my understanding is most search engine results are at least pseudo random, at best it would be difficult to detect and further prove. Given the history of the Phorm executives in the Spyware industry (121media) this could represent a significant threat to search engine business models.

Regards

Alexander Hanff

[kt88man]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

I wonder how long it will be before Phorm "reconfigure" the hardware during an "update" so that it changes search engine results to place their advertising partners at the top. If done correctly it would be very difficult to detect and prove.

Alexander Hanff

@Alexander

How could you suggest such a thing?

We all know how ethical Kent's company is... they would never stoop so low.

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by kt88man

@Alexander

How could you suggest such a thing?

We all know how ethical Kent's company is... they would never stoop so low.

All it would take is a little bit of regex.

Alexander Hanff