Heroin photo used in BNP leaflet

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

You appear to be contradicting yourself about the origin of the fighters.

If you look at this CNN link, you will find that 3.5 million Afghani refugees moved to Iran and Pakistan.

btw, what drug are these "fighters" on? If it's hash or opiates, I am surprised they can walk, never mind fight.

'my experience is that they say that now they are fighting Pakistanis and many are coming over the border for the drugs.'

'Wherever they originate from is not important' but they come across the border from the Pakistani

I think you accidently missed off the highlighted part of my quote.

We can play the cableforum word twisting game all night, but the fact of the matter is.

1) 93% of opium comes from Afghanistan
2) 14% of the Afghanistan population are involved
3) Men are coming over the border from Pakistan to fight our troops
4) The Pakistan Government are doing too little
5) Our troops have wiped out all but a small number of the original Taliban

And you seem to be trying to re-write history, by ignoring what you stated in post #39

"If you speak to soldiers coming back from a tour in Afghanistan my experience is that they say that now they are fighting Pakistanis and many are coming over the border for the drugs."

btw, I will ask the question again - what drugs are these fighters on, as hash or opiates make it difficult to walk, never mind fight.......

[Jonnymeg]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

And you seem to be trying to re-write history, by ignoring what you stated in post #39

"If you speak to soldiers coming back from a tour in Afghanistan my experience is that they say that now they are fighting Pakistanis and many are coming over the border for the drugs."

btw, I will ask the question again - what drugs are these fighters on, as hash or opiates make it difficult to walk, never mind fight.......

I think Escapee had already pointed out that whilst they may have been there to fight the was little chance of them causing harm due to the intoxication.

My point on this is simple. When you release a photo you are basically saying to the world 'do as you wish with it'. The family should have put conditions on it's reproduction from the outset and as they didn't then i don't think they have an case and nor should they.

Originally Posted by Jonnymeg

I think Escapee had already pointed out that whilst they may have been there to fight the was little chance of them causing harm due to the intoxication.
And again the point is (apparently) misinterpreted - it was stated by Escapee they were Pakistanis (drug befuddled or not) - it then became "where they originate from isn't important"; if it wasn't important, why stress they were Pakistani?

My point on this is simple. When you release a photo you are basically saying to the world 'do as you wish with it'. The family should have put conditions on it's reproduction from the outset and as they didn't then i don't think they have an case and nor should they.

But it isn't just about the photo - as the family said (in the OP link)

"Ms Whitear's parents said they would not have given their consent for the image to be used by any political party and were especially concerned about the claims made in the leaflet.
Her stepfather, Mick Holcroft, told the BBC they were exploring the legal steps they can take through the courts.
Her mother Pauline Holcroft said: "Our biggest concern is that because they have printed Rachel's name on the front of the leaflet it looks to all intents and purposes as if we are backing it, as if we had given our consent. "That is far from the truth." "

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

And you seem to be trying to re-write history, by ignoring what you stated in post #39

"If you speak to soldiers coming back from a tour in Afghanistan my experience is that they say that now they are fighting Pakistanis and many are coming over the border for the drugs."

btw, I will ask the question again - what drugs are these fighters on, as hash or opiates make it difficult to walk, never mind fight.......

I guess you have never taken on someone who is on drugs, I have experience of tackling people on drugs. I do not know in each incident what the individual was on but I know I have been up against someone on Speed and I have twice tackled Heroin users.

Heroin users are almost impossible to stop and appear to feel no pain, as anyone here reading who knew me from ntl days would tell you about the bite mark I had for 18 months from an unprovoked attack rom a Heroin user. I hit this person hard every time they got back up, but they kept coming forward.

My grandfather had a community award for the night we detained a Heroin user who was beating his girlfriend senseless in our driveway. When the police arrived I was happy to leave them to it, but although on Heroin two coppers had problems holding him on the floor to cuff him. I didn't know until later he was a Heroin addict and 12 months later he did us all a big favour.

Our troops are having problems because small calibre weapons are not stopping them efficiently, due to their drugged up brainwashed state they are just running at our troops but with little chance of inflicting any damage.

[Jonnymeg]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

But it isn't just about the photo - as the family said (in the OP link)

"Ms Whitear's parents said they would not have given their consent for the image to be used by any political party and were especially concerned about the claims made in the leaflet.
Her stepfather, Mick Holcroft, told the BBC they were exploring the legal steps they can take through the courts.
Her mother Pauline Holcroft said: "Our biggest concern is that because they have printed Rachel's name on the front of the leaflet it looks to all intents and purposes as if we are backing it, as if we had given our consent. "That is far from the truth." "

Well it still makes no difference as the parents don't have to give consent. If they don't like then i am afraid it is tough, they shouldn't have released the image. Using the name is legal too isn't it?
On this occasion i have to side with the BNP in the photo usage when they say they did nothing 'legally' wrong.
I guess the parents are a little upset by them calling their 'lovely' daughter a parasite but unfortunately most heroin addicts just so.

[Escapee]

Just a bit to back up my claim earlier.

Obviously my memory is not as good as I thought, the incident when I had a run in with this character was certainly around early 2001 which would of put it about 3 years prior to his death reported here. (My GF never recovered the full amount from the damages caused when he jumped on the roof of her car and then on the roof of my company car that was the reason I layed into him) What a lovely person he was!

http://archive.southwalesargus.co.uk.../13/61801.html

I remember phoning the newspaper at the time about the incident because I was disgusted that they were indicating that he was not a regular Heroin user. They would not print anything negative because they had to respect the family, although this person was high on heroin when arrested for the incident in 2001.

It's always the same story though, my son/daughter was good blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by Jonnymeg

Well it still makes no difference as the parents don't have to give consent. If they don't like then i am afraid it is tough, they shouldn't have released the image. Using the name is legal too isn't it?
On this occasion i have to side with the BNP in the photo usage when they say they did nothing 'legally' wrong.
I guess the parents are a little upset by them calling their 'lovely' daughter a parasite but unfortunately most heroin addicts just so.

You are a nice sympathetic soul, aren't you?

So the next time the BNP use your quote above (out of context, but, what the hey - in your own words, if you don't like it, tough ) in one of their leaflets, you won't have a problem?

btw, Escapee, I think you might be confusing speed/crank users with heroin users - heroin users are usually too out of it after injecting to do much.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

You are a nice sympathetic soul, aren't you?

So the next time the BNP use your quote above (out of context, but, what the hey - in your own words, if you don't like it, tough ) in one of their leaflets, you won't have a problem?

btw, Escapee, I think you might be confusing speed/crank users with heroin users - heroin users are usually too out of it after injecting to do much.

The guy in the article I linked was a known Heroin user. (although the newspaper article didn't reflect that and his father tried to give the impression it was his first fix)

The attack when I received the bite was also from a Heroin user, I am led to believe they have a rush straight after injecting but as you say it than makes them lethargic and useless after a while.

The speed user I got involved with was small but it made him as strong as an ox, I posted about that incident last year when it took 3 of us to restrain him. He had attacked the pub landlady for no reason, but we had to be careful out in the street how we dealt with him because of the cctv cameras and the sudden appearance of about a dozen or so drug dealers and users.

The police were not that interested until he smacked one of the coppers in the face. I'm sure he would of walked away if he hd not done that.

[c_r]

Originally Posted by Escapee

The guy in the article I linked was a known Heroin user. (although the newspaper article didn't reflect that and his father tried to give the impression it was his first fix)

The attack when I received the bite was also from a Heroin user, I am led to believe they have a rush straight after injecting but as you say it than makes them lethargic and useless after a while.

The speed user I got involved with was small but it made him as strong as an ox, I posted about that incident last year when it took 3 of us to restrain him. He had attacked the pub landlady for no reason, but we had to be careful out in the street how we dealt with him because of the cctv cameras and the sudden appearance of about a dozen or so drug dealers and users.

The police were not that interested until he smacked one of the coppers in the face. I'm sure he would of walked away if he hd not done that.

Blimey, where do you live? You seem to get involved in an awful lot of incidents!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by c_r

Blimey, where do you live? You seem to get involved in an awful lot of incidents!

I dont think its much different in any area these days, as drug users are now very widespread.

Saying that, I have had problems with drug users and my nighbours do not. But then again I have not been the type to hear someone in touble being beaten badly and just turn up the TV to ignore it. I have neighbours like that, the curtains twitch and they come out after the event to ask what happened claiming they didn't hear a thing.

A hostel for homeless teenagers in my street has increased the number of dealers hanging around selling dugs and large properties converted into flats housing drug users are not helping matters. The TA centre for army cadets has now closed because it is unsafe for the cadets to operate from there, although the council are still patting themselves on the back for opening the hostel.

I think it doesn't matter what area you live in, any area can be a nice area and before you know it a change in circumstances by the council can change everything. Its best to make sure you live very close to your local councillor because they will not allow it on their doorstep.

A few months ago I did something that I have never done before in my life, a woman from down the road was on the floor late at night and a couple of teenagers appeared to of attacked her. I thought what would my neighbours who live opposite and are involved in charity and drug rehab do in this situation, I did exactly what they would do. I put on my la la la I'm not listening headphones, turned my head the other way and walked on.

Would any of my neighbours return the favour of helping me if I was being attacked? That is a very big NO, I have learned my lesson that you get very little thanks and the favour would not be returned.

[Jonnymeg]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

You are a nice sympathetic soul, aren't you?

So the next time the BNP use your quote above (out of context, but, what the hey - in your own words, if you don't like it, tough ) in one of their leaflets, you won't have a problem?
.

Sympathy has nothing to do with. As a parent myself i can understand their pain but unfortunately they did release the image and that it is that. They should have given serious thought before doing so or at least sought better advice than they received.
As far as i am aware they have not been quoted so your statement is a little off the mark.
To blindly release a photo and hope the world is as decent as you would like them to be is a little foolhardy....don't you think?

No, I don't think that.

They released the photograph, and a 22 minute video, to warn people about the dangers of drug abuse, as quoted in a BBC article Link
"Over the next two years, Rachel's parents campaigned against drugs to try to save other lives.

In March 2002, a 22-minute video called Rachel's Story was shown to hundreds of teenage school pupils, and a photograph of her body was released by her mother Pauline Holcroft."

The fact that some sleaze-bags abused their gesture does not, imho, make them foolhardy - it just makes the political party involved ****-sucking rabble-rousing oxygen thieves (again, imho).

Unfortunately, the idiots who abused this family's trust will just have discouraged anyone else doing the same thing in the future (imho).