Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] - Page 103

Florence · 20-03-2008, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackSon

That's the router talking to the Modem on the Modem's private internal IP I believe. Is why the IP is in the reserved private netowrk range. Its nothing on the external net.

Thanks wil lower the alarm bells again I really can't wait to move ISP now..

lucevans · 20-03-2008, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper

Email 'official Notice' isnt valid for VM as they removed that electronic official notice option from the Virgin Media T&Cs a while back.

That's just wrong - a bill should be passed that states that consumers have a legal right to cancel a service by the same means that that they originally signed-up for it: All ISPs allow you to sign-up to their service online, so they should be forced to allow you to cancel it in the same way.

AlexanderHanff · 20-03-2008, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackSon

That's the router talking to the Modem on the Modem's private internal IP I believe. Is why the IP is in the reserved private netowrk range. Its nothing on the external net.

Again, I have to disagree with this unless someone actually has evidence to the contrary. The latency on that second hop is simply too high to be on the same device as the first. I don't use cable, I use ADSL and I have /29 subnet so I use static routing for all my IPs and each device has a public IP address so I don't use NAT -but- I still think that second hop is VM's gateway as opposed to your router/modem. I am not saying it definitely is, it could just be a case that the VM cable boxes are crap and have high latency at the network bridge.

Alexander Hanff

none · 20-03-2008, 21:19

For those late to the phorm party, here's some of the anti-phorm graphics that I've been making over the past week or so. You can find the rest HERE

Feel free to share them with as many folk as possible.

Userbars

userbar v2 slogan1 - 10kb - 300x19
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Code:

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1715/userbarv21pr0.jpg

userbar v2 slogan2 - 10kb - 300x19

Code:

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1972/userbarv22np6.jpg

userbar v1 slogan1 - 11kb - 350x19

Code:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6346/userbar11cf4.jpg

userbar v1 slogan2 - 11kb - 350x19

Code:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9921/userbar12rx3.jpg

Avatars

av1 - 120x120

Code:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1433/antiphormavqy6.jpg

av2 - 120x120

Code:

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/9264/avdonotwant120x120mm2.jpg

av3 - 120x120

Code:

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5872/avantiphorm120x120bm8.jpg

Signatures

sig1

Code:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/527/sigantiphormv11vm9.jpg

sig2

Code:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6285/sigantiphormv12ip4.jpg

sig3

Code:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2593/sigstopphormv3fo8.jpg

sig4

Code:

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4917/stopphormsigv2wv9.jpg

sig5

Code:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8130/phightphormsigv2rn8.jpg

sig6

Code:

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8183/sigdonotwantmp1.gif

sig7

Code:

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/8829/sigdonotwantv2wa2.gif

sig8

Code:

 http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7999/sigantiphormv15hz4.jpg

sig9

Code:

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6865/sigantiphormv16vb6.jpg

Business Card

Slogan1 - 160kb

Code:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6184/businesscardv11ag7.jpg

Postcard

slogan1 - 360kb

Code:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4504/postcardv11rs8.jpg

Postcard Reverse Side

Reverse Side v1.1

Code:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5536/postcardreversev11rv3.jpg

T-Shirt - for print onto white t-shirts

3508 x 4961 - 779kb

popper · 20-03-2008, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Again, I have to disagree with this unless someone actually has evidence to the contrary.

The latency on that second hop is simply too high to be on the same device as the first.

I don't use cable, I use ADSL and I have /29 subnet so I use static routing for all my IPs and each device has a public IP address so I don't use NAT -but- I still think that second hop is VM's gateway as opposed to your router/modem.

I am not saying it definitely is, it could just be a case that the VM cable boxes are crap and have high latency at the network bridge.

Alexander Hanff

carrage returns are good

seriously Alexander, it really is the Wan side internal VM IP that VM give your modem, in my case the NTL250

2 23 ms 22 ms 18 ms 10.137.*
3 52 ms * 10 ms bagu-t2*
4 12 ms 7 ms 13 ms bagu-t2core-b-ge-wan22.inet.ntl.com

beleave it or not the NTL250 and VM255 are the ones rated for the 20Mbit service and they do run at that, its even been seen that they run at the full docsis1.1 30+Mbit.

BUT the internal WAN to LAN CPU processing part inside them is real slow sometimes.

the sammy STB is also in the simular private internal VM range if anyone on VM checks their STB IP settings/technical stuff IP address 10.118.* , these are pluged into the very same UBRs your CM plugs into.

AlexanderHanff · 20-03-2008, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper

seriously Alexander, it really is the Wan side internal VM IP that VM give your modem, in my case the NTL250

2 23 ms 22 ms 18 ms 10.137.*
3 52 ms * 10 ms bagu-t2*
4 12 ms 7 ms 13 ms bagu-t2core-b-ge-wan22.inet.ntl.com

beleave it or not the NTL250 and VM255 are the ones rated for the 20Mbit service and they do run at that, its even been seen that they run at the full docsis1.1 30+Mbit.

BUT the internal WAN to LAN CPU processing part inside them is real slow sometimes.

Slow is an understatement, the latency on your "2nd" hop is almost as high as my terminating hop to the BBC (which has jumped through multiple hops before getting there).

But I take your word for it.

Alexander Hanff

JackSon · 20-03-2008, 21:38

Code:

>tracert bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    16 ms    25 ms    14 ms  10.251.xx.x
  3    14 ms    10 ms    11 ms  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  4    10 ms    12 ms    13 ms  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  5    15 ms    38 ms    22 ms  lee-bb-a-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.17]

  6    43 ms    19 ms    48 ms  pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.238]

  7    22 ms    22 ms    30 ms  tele-ic-2-as0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.184.6]
  8    27 ms    18 ms    23 ms  ntl-ge2-8.prt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.217]
  9    42 ms    19 ms    26 ms  212.58.238.153
 10    16 ms    26 ms    17 ms  rdirwww-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]

Trace complete.

It is a feature that has been present on a NTL/VM connection for many years, so I suspect it to be an engineering feature rather than something which is linked to the current stories. Could be that the modems are not giving very high priority to pinging back (especially to the LAN) as it's a bit pointless.

Plenty of VM Techs on here who should be able to give you definitive answer though should the question be posed.

---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

And the PR offensive increases, to a climax possibly?

http://www.prweek.com/uk/news/articl...-PR-fightback/

http://understrictembargo.wordpress....-of-pr-crisis/

Florence · 20-03-2008, 21:42

This made me laugh

Quote:

attempt to save its reputation.

What reputation?? it is VM reputation that is sinking fast.

Cobbydaler · 20-03-2008, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

<snip> For those late to the phorm party, here's some of the anti-phorm graphics that I've been making over the past week or so. You can find the rest HERE

Feel free to share them with as many folk as possible. <snip>

You can add a link to badphorm by using the following in your sig:

Code:

{URL="http://www.badphorm.co.uk"}[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]{/URL}

Replace the { } with [ ]

e.g.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

AlexanderHanff · 20-03-2008, 22:15

Time to get to work again folks, lets see some anti Phorm PR on the following blog comments please:

http://understrictembargo.wordpress....-of-pr-crisis/

Alexander Hanff

Cobbydaler · 20-03-2008, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Time to get to work again folks, lets see some anti Phorm PR on the following blog comments please:

http://understrictembargo.wordpress....-of-pr-crisis/

Alexander Hanff

You may like to edit your last comment on that blog (if possible)...

Change explicit content to explicit consent

ceedee · 20-03-2008, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Time to get to work again folks, lets see some anti Phorm PR on the following blog comments please:
http://understrictembargo.wordpress....-of-pr-crisis/

Oh, if you insist:

Quote:

What Jed is missing (and Phorm deliberately ignore) is that this is nothing like loyalty card mining (no card: no data) or cctv snooping (of public areas).

Phorm is equivalent to the Post Office opening your letters to friends, family and suppliers and reading every word in order to identify which useless leaflets your local free newspaper should dump on your doormat each week.
Or BT listening in to every phone conversation to better assist a telemarketing droid's attempts to interest you in their wares.

As for Phorm's PR team talking up their excellent 'strategy' -- shame you missed that us lowly consumers might expect a complete and secure method of avoiding our data being abused by our ISPs and Phorm? Do you yet accept that an opt-out cookie is completely inadequate?

It's not that we don't understand how Phorm works nor appreciate how anonymous you insist the data is reformed: we simply don't want you to have anything to do with our private data.

Quite how BT Retail, TalkTalk and VirginMedia think they have any right to examine, manipulate and profit from my internet browsing is beyond me but I'm sure they'll be "open and transparent" explaining it to me. Eventually.

AlexanderHanff · 20-03-2008, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

You may like to edit your last comment on that blog (if possible)...

Change explicit content to explicit consent

No way to edit it unfortunately, I was already aware of it. I have only had 7 hours sleep so far this week and spent most of last night writing a paper on human rights abuses at Guantanamo Bay, followed by most of today in a meeting for a group project I am managing based around deploying Open Learning Labs into the community where the public can receive free IT training. So I am a little burnt out and despite reading everything 3 or 4 times before hitting submit, still seem to manage the odd typo.

I will take inspiration from the Phorm camp and try harder...

Alexander Hanff

popper · 20-03-2008, 22:42

so we will be welcoming
ex-House of Commons media adviser John Stonborough ?

thats nice, but house of commons media adviser, how will that effect your average Broadband user.

"The company recently hired former Yahoo head of European PR David Sawday as its head of comms."

is this PhormPRTeam some of his co-ordination, hmmmm.

most of you wont be old enough or non mainstream to remember this, but this ISP/Phorm PR is looking more and more like the old Amiga Inc PR wars.

and let me tell you, thats NOT pritty, year on year the new and improved amiga PR machine keeps plugging away trying to pull the wool over the latest marks, i mean investors eyes , only to have the rabid ex-amigans go into the US court records and pull out any and all legal rulings and awards to educate the investors.

i have watched this dog and pony show for years, and they keep pulling out the popcorn to watch the latest show unfold, real funny at times when your bored.

it seems to me, if the ISPs/Phorm dont come to their censes soon and just pull the plug or massively re-structure to the real users benefit, YOU can be sure, once this hits the US, we shall see this very same pulling back the covers of every single legal ruling,company finances and much more, anything there is to find on every single person that gets involved in this, they will find and make known.

you dont want that , trust me..., the Amiga PR wars could be a small side show in comparison, if this ISP/Phorm/whoever-else gets going and you get on the wrong side of the US (and perhaps even the UK)BB users.

these two new lads dont realise what they are dealing with it seems.

ill be investing in lots of industial quantity popcorn real soon now

if you have a few years spare heres a selection
http://search.virginmedia.com/result...e+moo+bunny&cr=

CaptJamieHunter · 20-03-2008, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Time to get to work again folks, lets see some anti Phorm PR on the following blog comments please:

http://understrictembargo.wordpress....-of-pr-crisis/

Alexander Hanff

Get on over and give the Phorm PR spin machine hell. Every time the slime tries to spin in public we need to respond in numbers.