Heroin photo used in BNP leaflet

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well thats the level of dimwitted politics the BNP represent.

Well it's probably closer to the truth than any other political party is willing to admit. Lets face it Heroin addiction is a lifestyle choice, I doubt every user in the UK were held down and force injected to get them started.

It's pretty well accepted that heroin leads people downwards at high speed. There aren't that many "I did skag and now I own several aston martins" stories whereas there are plenty "I was a bright individual with good prospects, now I steal anything that isn't nailed down and wouldn't think twice about mugging a granny to get a couple of quid" stories.

[papa smurf]

here's a poverty stricken farmer trying to scratch out a living

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

Well first of all we need to think about who we are talking about. People talk generally about Asians when what they really mean are people who have origins in countries such as Pakistan. In turn people of Pakistani origin can be mistaken for other groups such as Bangladeshi, Afghan etc etc.

Of course the true meaning of the word Asian with respect to people,would mean the people of the continent of Asia which a hugely greater group !

So then,in the UK,references to Asians could generally be read to mean Pakistani and not the wider group of Asian peoples since Pakistani Asians form the vast majority of the UK population sub group.

So then,what then is the link between Asian and Muslim? One might as well say British and Protestant !

There is no link. The media would have us believe that all "Asians" are also Muslims by default. Whilst i accept that there are probably a greater proportion of the faithfull within the Asian population than in the indigenious non Asian population, we cannot assume that Asian/Pakistani = Muslim.

I am not saying that Muslims are involved in Heroin Trafficking. What I am saying is that Asians are involved in Heroin Trafficking. Whether they are Muslim or not is of no consequence to me.

Now then-Heroin trafficking to the UK-Well as i say ,there is no shortage of criminal cases involving Asians (the narrower group) and the trafficking of Heroin.

Fair enough, you've done well and argued that only some of this sector of population are involved.

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

Many Asian businesses are built on the backs of drug dealing and trafficking.

There have been Asian and Bangladeshi businesses in this country which are merely legitimate looking fronts for the importation of Heroin.

Oh dear now it seems like we should be suspicious about a large number rather than only some.

Can we try to avoid over generalised statements please?

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by crazymaniac

That's a strange position to die in...

IIRC, there were questions over whether the overdose was accidental or not, & whether she was alone when she died.

---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/6990031.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/6993015.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/7009185.stm

[Vlad_Dracul]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Times "Figures for 2005 show that there are 4.2 million Catholics in England and Wales, under one fifth the 25 million baptised Anglicans and double the number of Muslims."
You never knowingly let facts get in the way of a good polemic.


Evidence, please, before we assume your real name is Nick Griffin.
btw, the Oxford definition of "many" is "a great number" and "the majority of people"; I would expect your evidence (if you have it) to fulfill that definition, since you have besmirched a great number of businesses.

I'm not quite sure what the Times article ads to the debate. There is a world of difference between those who identify with a particular religious denomination,those baptised or formalised into it and those who actually practice or attend their temple regularly.

Can you offer any explanation as to why there is a preponderance of "Asian" people involved in the trades of what might loosley described as restaurants,fast food and Wooly pully operations?

How can i be ,for example, that we have a Curry Mile in Manchester so many restaurants,all open for the greater part 24/7,and yet they are all seemingly thriving businesses?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....roin_plot_gang

There are plenty of similar cases..

O course i realise that it would be ridiculous to suggest that every curry house,knitwear factory and taxi diver were a front for drug dealing but there is evidence and have evidence of my own eyes.

Pakistanis must particularly like to maintain close family ties for on many a day, Manchester airport could be mistaken for somewhere further afield.

---------- Post added at 16:39 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Matt D

IIRC, there were questions over whether the overdose was accidental or not, & whether she was alone when she died.

---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/6990031.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/6993015.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/7009185.stm

To the uninitiated it may seem a strange position but it isnt that unusual. Heroin users will often make themselves comfortable either sitting up ,cross legged and then smoke or inject. They then start "Goofing"as it is known
http://www.dublinaidsalliance.com/Wo...rug%20Info.doc

and in that relaxed state,it would not be unsual for the girl to slump forward and gently drift into oblivion,under the influence of the opiate overdose. The purple colour i due to settlement of blood in the tissues due to gravity/no circulation (heart stopped)

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

I'm not quite sure what the Times article ads to the debate. There is a world of difference between those who identify with a particular religious denomination,those baptised or formalised into it and those who actually practice or attend their temple regularly.

Can you offer any explanation as to why there is a preponderance of "Asian" people involved in the trades of what might loosley described as restaurants,fast food and Wooly pully operations?

How can i be ,for example, that we have a Curry Mile in Manchester so many restaurants,all open for the greater part 24/7,and yet they are all seemingly thriving businesses?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....roin_plot_gang

There are plenty of similar cases..

O course i realise that it would be ridiculous to suggest that every curry house,knitwear factory and taxi diver were a front for drug dealing but there is evidence and have evidence of my own eyes.

Pakistanis must particularly like to maintain close family ties for on many a day, Manchester airport could be mistaken for somewhere further afield.

You have given a link to a group of smugglers who ran a clothing company as a front, and saying that you have evidence of many examples. And I think you're also implying that the majority of pakistanis traveling between Pakistan and Manchester are drug runners.

Oh and then you're suggesting that all restaurants are drug running fronts because there are so many of them and you cant understand why they are thriving. Could they be thriving because there is an abundance of people wishing to eat Indian meals. You do realise that many restaurants close down too dont you. Are you suggesting those are failed smugglers, or 'honest' business men?

Excuse me for saying, but I think you're post is one of the biggest load of baloney I have read on this forum. You have no basis for making the claims you do, and quite frankly its an insult to hard working asian entrepeneurs in the UK.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

I'm not quite sure what the Times article ads to the debate. There is a world of difference between those who identify with a particular religious denomination,those baptised or formalised into it and those who actually practice or attend their temple regularly.

Can you offer any explanation as to why there is a preponderance of "Asian" people involved in the trades of what might loosley described as restaurants,fast food and Wooly pully operations?

How can i be ,for example, that we have a Curry Mile in Manchester so many restaurants,all open for the greater part 24/7,and yet they are all seemingly thriving businesses?

Maybe why there are so many businesses in food and such like is the relative ease that they can be set up for low cost yet there is strong demand for such services allowing an opportunity for healthy profit.

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

Pakistanis must particularly like to maintain close family ties for on many a day, Manchester airport could be mistaken for somewhere further afield.

I have a feeling here that your true colours are showing

[Vlad_Dracul]

I am merely presenting that which can clearly be observed for all who can see,for further examination ,debate and dis-section.

Even if the majority of those in the UK caught up in the dealing of drugs are Asians, It serves little point? Why on earth debate that fact rather than the drugs, drug market, and social deprivation in which drug culture prospers?

[Vlad_Dracul]

So what do we need to fix first then? Do we need to take out the front line importers and distributors of hard drugs in the UK or do we need to create a social panacea in which everyone had such brilliant and fulfilling lives that they would never even consider taking drugs,thereby leaving dealers without a market?

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

So what do we need to fix first then? Do we need to take out the front line importers and distributors of hard drugs in the UK or do we need to create a social panacea in which everyone had such brilliant and fulfilling lives that they would never even consider taking drugs,thereby leaving dealers without a market?

You properly need to tackle both, you need to remove the criminals distributing this stuff but at the same time that is going to be much more difficult as long as a market exists.

Either way the nationality of the those in the drug rings is not important, I doubt the hardcore ones work with 'friends back home', the big importers properly stay far away from the actual distribution in the communities.

The BNP's approach here is typical of them, blame it on easy answers and muslims.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Derek S

Well it's probably closer to the truth than any other political party is willing to admit. Lets face it Heroin addiction is a lifestyle choice, I doubt every user in the UK were held down and force injected to get them started.

It's pretty well accepted that heroin leads people downwards abyt high speed. There aren't that many "I did skag and now I own several aston martins" stories whereas there are plenty "I was a bright individual with good prospects, now I steal anything that isn't nailed down and wouldn't think twice about mugging a granny to get a couple of quid" stories.

Steady on there, you are bringing sense to the discussion.

Whilst it is a sad story for the family affected as you say people who get mixed up in drugs did have the choice. The shame here is the real issues are being lost in the politics, the vast quantities of heroin that arrives here is grown in parts of Asia.

It would be nice to know how much Is smuggled in by UK residents compared with the amount brought in by foreign nationals. We have a couple of known businesses around here (kebab shops) that are known for supplying drugs, there has even been a bit of a mini war when he new kebab shop started selling drugs on the other guys patch.

One of these businesses is Turkish owned and I believe the other is Iraqi owned.

Originally Posted by Escapee

Steady on there, you are bringing sense to the discussion.

Whilst it is a sad story for the family affected as you say people who get mixed up in drugs did have the choice. The shame here is the real issues are being lost in the politics, the vast quantities of heroin that arrives here is grown in parts of Asia.

It would be nice to know how much Is smuggled in by UK residents compared with the amount brought in by foreign nationals. We have a couple of known businesses around here (kebab shops) that are known for supplying drugs, there has even been a bit of a mini war when he new kebab shop started selling drugs on the other guys patch.

One of these businesses is Turkish owned and I believe the other is Iraqi owned.

No one is saying they were right, or that they did not bring the addiction on themselves. However, It's still tragic and I doubt they wanted to deserved to go down the path they go down, like the woman mentioned here.

As for the smuggling, family ties are unlikely to be the sole method of the majority of the drug smuggling that goes on. Even so, I am not sure what the nationality/race of those doing the smuggling has to do with it. In terms of fighting it as least.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Damien

No one is saying they were right, or that they did not bring the addiction on themselves. However, It's still tragic and I doubt they wanted to deserved to go down the path they go down, like the woman mentioned here.

As for the smuggling, family ties are unlikely to be the sole method of the majority of the drug smuggling that goes on. Even so, I am not sure what the nationality/race of those doing the smuggling has to do with it. In terms of fighting it as least.

I disagree with your last comment, I believe the smuggling of drugs from another country into this country will most likely involve people here with close ties to the country of drug origin.

Its the same as people smuggling, around here we have had raids on kebab houses and convenience stores. (There has been similar reports from other areas of wales) These were obviously inteligence led but both cases resulted in a number of smuggled illegal immigrants arrested. I believe that drug smuggling in many cases operates in a similar manner, by having connections in both countries.

However suggesting that anyone of a race other than a British White person could possibly be involved is of course racist.

The BNP is a racist party, but in common with all the other parties they have one or two good policies that have been discussed here many times.

Originally Posted by Escapee

I disagree with your last comment, I believe the smuggling of drugs from another country into this country will most likely involve people here with close ties to the country of drug origin.

Its the same as people smuggling, around here we have had raids on kebab houses and convenience stores. (There has been similar reports from other areas of wales) These were obviously inteligence led but both cases resulted in a number of smuggled illegal immigrants arrested. I believe that drug smuggling in many cases operates in a similar manner, by having connections in both countries.

However suggesting that anyone of a race other than a British White person could possibly be involved is of course racist.
erm, where has that been suggested or stated in this thread? I love it when the "reverse racism" card is played, to allow people to be the injured party. The "Political Correctness" and the "Human Rights" cards should be out soon, then.

The BNP is a racist party, but in common with all the other parties they have one or two good policies that have been discussed here many times.
As did a number of other far-right parties in the past........

Anyhoo, we seemed to have wandered from the OP about a political party using the circumstances, image, and tragedy suffered by a family without asking their permission, into a discussion about how evil Asians are, and what misery they are bringing on this country - how did that happen?