Gurkha veterans seek equal rights

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Wasn't it the conditions laid down by the Nepalese government that control how the Gurkha's were treated. After all, permission is required to recruit in Nepal. The Nepalese don't want to lose people permanently or have people returning to Nepal as relatively rich people, both of which would distort the country.

Surely, that's a violation of their human rights?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Osem

You ignore the fact that people are also being allowed to stay in effect because the state doesn't find them or remove them. Until these people are either given the right to remain or deported they remain here illegally which is what Sirius pointed out.

Am I allowed to nick £10 from your bank account each week because you don't notice it? Were you allowing me? No of course not.
I know from personal experience that illegal immigrants are being targetted and dealt with.

Originally Posted by ntluser

I think the government's treatment of the Gurkhas is appalling. Having said that they treat our own troops in Iraq and Afghanistan in the same way.

Maybe we need to put MPs in the firing line and see if that changes their perspective about how we treat those who put their lives on the line for Queen and country.

Gets my vote

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Wasn't it the conditions laid down by the Nepalese government that control how the Gurkha's were treated. After all, permission is required to recruit in Nepal. The Nepalese don't want to lose people permanently or have people returning to Nepal as relatively rich people, both of which would distort the country.

I think you are correct.

I have spoken to a few people who have been to Nepal on military duties and they all seem to tell the same story. The villages feed up the strongest boys in the hope that they will get into the army, when they retire back to Nepal after army service they settle back in the same village.

One told me that back in the 90's when he visited you would see villages with shanty type houses and then on the side of the mountain there would be a huge mansion, this would be owned by ex seargent xyz. He said that the ex soldiers would return and would put something back in to repay the village for helping him get into the army, it could be a water supply, school, generator etc.

He did say that the government were anxious about individuals receiving too much pension, because they may not return home and help the villages or it could create a greater divide between rich and poor. There was a huge fuss in this country about them receiving comparable pension to UK born soldiers, but the sum they received even though considerably less allowed them to live a very rich and comfortable life on their return to Nepal.

I agree that it seemed unfair that they are not paid like for like, but unfortunately it has now created problems in Nepal with very rich few and now it will mean some can afford not even return to spread some of their wealth amongst those who helped them become wealthy.

Perhaps a better system would of been for the MOD to spend the money (difference) on improving facilities and infrastructure in their country instead of creating millonaires.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Am I allowed to nick £10 from your bank account each week because you don't notice it? Were you allowing me? No of course not.
I know from personal experience that illegal immigrants are being targetted and dealt with.

The term 'allowed' can mean being given permission to do something, it can also mean being given the opportunity to do something, for example, by inaction or negligence. They are NOT the same thing.

In that situation of course I would not be allowing it in the sense of giving permission but the bank's lax security may well have allowed it to happen nonetheless. In credit card ID fraud it is rarely the victim's permission which allows the fraud - it's the bank systems which aren't robust enough to prevent it. There is no law allowing electoral fraud but I have just posted a thread about the lax procedures which ALLOW it to take place.

We all know that illegal immigrants are being dealt with but for a variety of reasons it will never be possible for ALL illegals to be identified or removed and hence the the circumstances will have 'allowed' them to remain at liberty.

[Sirius]

So the pretender has ducked the issue and refused to support those serving before 1997. The man is a coward and a traitor.

He has failed to support our troops
He has sold the country down the road to Europe
He supported the lie on Iraq
He still supports the lie on iraq.

The sooner he is kicked out of power and the bunch of yes men with him the better.


So those that support Labour what do you think of your cowards now.

This is a disgusting situation that SHOULD not be happening in these times those gurkhas have more right to live in the UK then many that were born here. Any man that puts on the uniform and is prepared to give his life for us should not have to apply to live here it should be a basic right and thank you for what they do. Also instead of giving millions in aid to corrupt regimes whereever we as a nation should put in more money in nepal and as much technical help as they need to raise their standard of living.

As for the other debate going on here about "illegals" there seem to be a core of posters that always word comments in such a way that they can insinuate without commiting and also allow themselves room to move pending how the comment is taken. Just because some posters are\think they are smarter then others doesn't mean they have a right to patronise the opinions of others as maybe just maybe they are not as smart as they think.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Osem

We all know that illegal immigrants are being dealt with but for a variety of reasons it will never be possible for ALL illegals to be identified or removed and hence the the circumstances will have 'allowed' them to remain at liberty.

Being due to reasons beyond our control means we are not allowing it to happen, for instance by not stopping the Sun rising, are we allowing the Sun to rise? No of course not. What the Sun does is beyond our control. An illegal immigrant who successfully remains hidden and therefore beyond the control of the immigration office is not being allowed to stay, they are just staying.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

This is a disgusting situation that SHOULD not be happening in these times those gurkhas have more right to live in the UK then many that were born here. Any man that puts on the uniform and is prepared to give his life for us should not have to apply to live here it should be a basic right and thank you for what they do. Also instead of giving millions in aid to corrupt regimes wherever we as a nation should put in more money in Nepal and as much technical help as they need to raise their standard of living.

As for the other debate going on here about "illegals" there seem to be a core of posters that always word comments in such a way that they can insinuate without committing and also allow themselves room to move pending how the comment is taken. Just because some posters are\think they are smarter then others doesn't mean they have a right to patronise the opinions of others as maybe just maybe they are not as smart as they think.

Well said

I have been accused before and again today an answer was worded in that way. so that should i have retailiated i would have been the one to receive a warning and the person who used a two sided answer will get away with it. Just like last time.

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Being due to reasons beyond our control means we are not allowing it to happen, for instance by not stopping the Sun rising, are we allowing the Sun to rise? No of course not. What the Sun does is beyond our control. An illegal immigrant who successfully remains hidden and therefore beyond the control of the immigration office is not being allowed to stay, they are just staying.

but if the Government spent some money on stopping them getting in to this country in the first place then we might not have the problem.

Why can they not have every Vehicle, searched at the docks in France before they get on the ferries and trains instead of the lip service that is given at the moment.

This Government is more interested in Preventing the entry of cheap fags and booze than Illegal immigrants that have traveled through plenty of safe countries before entering the free bank of England. Meanwhile those that have stood and put there lives on the line for this country are a easy target for a bunch of cowards that see them as a way of increasing the figures of those told to leave this country.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Sirius

but if the Government spent some money on stopping them getting in to this country in the first place then we might not have the problem.

Why can they not have every Vehicle, searched at the docks in France before they get on the ferries and trains instead of the lip service that is given at the moment.

This Government is more interested in Preventing the entry of cheap fags and booze than Illegal immigrants that have traveled through plenty of safe countries before entering the free bank of England. Meanwhile those that have stood and put there lives on the line for this country are a easy target for a bunch of cowards that see them as a way of increasing the figures of those told to leave this country.

That assumes that every illegal immigrant enters as an illegal immigrant, and via France on trains and ferries.
Mate of mine was an illegal immigrant for a few months last year, after living here for 14 years (he's 20), now he's legal for the next few years.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Being due to reasons beyond our control means we are not allowing it to happen, for instance by not stopping the Sun rising, are we allowing the Sun to rise? No of course not. What the Sun does is beyond our control. An illegal immigrant who successfully remains hidden and therefore beyond the control of the immigration office is not being allowed to stay, they are just staying.

It is not factors beyond the Government's control which allow illegal immigrants to stay here whether indefinitely or not. It is a ridiculous set of rules/regulations which have come to be under a number of governments over the years and the failure (for various reasons) of the authorities to act effectively which has caused the difficulties we have NOT the impossibility of the task. Their negligence and ineptitude in these is matters is what's responsible for allowing such abuse of the system and it's entirely within their control if not their ability or intentions. If I leave my front door open I don't give permission for others to enter but I allow (ie give them the opportunity) to do so if they so wish.

So you were a friend of his while he was illegal ? if so why didn't you report him ?.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Access

That assumes that every illegal immigrant enters as an illegal immigrant, and via France on trains and ferries.
Mate of mine was an illegal immigrant for a few months last year, after living here for 14 years (he's 20), now he's legal for the next few years.

Lets cut to the chase here.

Which way do you think the bulk of illegal immigrants enter this country and from what country's ports ?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So you were a friend of his while he was illegal ? if so why didn't you report him ?.

Possibly because he was only technically illegal and not actually illegal In any event, the system 'allowed' him to remain in the country while he was illegal because it failed to prevent it.

I ask osem as i have reported someone that was a friend and i found out he was an illegal. If someone says to me they are illegal i report i leave it to the proper authorities to decide what type of illegal they are.

[Osem]

I was only being lighthearted about Xaccers' possible response.