Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] - Page 79

popper · 13-03-2008, 16:46

hmm , iv never given it any real thought,i dont really know....

but id think that your average unicast http client to server, is a point to point connection, and so a personal connection...,NOT a public one.

your average https might be considered like using a 'personal messenger' service, and so a more secure client/server pipe.

TheNorm · 13-03-2008, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper

...but id think that your average unicast http client to server, is a point to point connection, and so a personal connection.....

Now that you mention it, webservers all over the world have access to your IP address. What is to stop a server that hosts a forum from selling IP addresses to an advertiser?

OF1975 · 13-03-2008, 16:54

PhormUKPRteam

I am sure I have read somewhere that contrary to what you have said, Phorm WILL store data for up to 14 days for research and monitoring purposes. Despite trying unfortunately I can no longer find that information. Just to clarify matters can you give a cast-iron guarantee that NONE of our data pertaining to our surfing habits will be stored?

the_baby_jebus · 13-03-2008, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Now that you mention it, webservers all over the world have access to your IP address. What is to stop a server that hosts a forum from selling IP addresses to an advertiser?

some do.. on a regular basis.. along with your email address...

but you can avoid them...

can't with this wheeze...

TheNorm · 13-03-2008, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_baby_jebus

some do.. on a regular basis.. along with your email address...

but you can avoid them...

can't with this wheeze...

So how do you know who they are, until its too late?

And how do you know when a website changes its mind and starts selling the information?

popper · 13-03-2008, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Now that you mention it, webservers all over the world have access to your IP address. What is to stop a server that hosts a forum from selling IP addresses to an advertiser?

apart from the obvious you have the choice not to go there,and so not be collected...

now that the EU commissioner has stated your IP is personal data , that would be one reason inside the EU at least.

i dont know if the so called 'safe harbor' agreement with the US regarding data might also be in effect!

SMHarman · 13-03-2008, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

If the private body is exposed, is it against the law to view it?

Surely a "sealed communication" would be data sent over https, or otherwise encrypted.

If I carry out a conversation in public, I shouldn't be surprised if people overhear what I'm saying.

If you want to compare these to a postal system your conversation in public is a postcard, your letter is a private communication and a sealed communication would be a tamperproof letter sent by bonded courier.
It is my understanding that deep packet inspection of data should not routinely occur on the internet in the UK just as routine inspection of letters or routine bugging of telephone calls does not occur.

the_baby_jebus · 13-03-2008, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

So how do you know who they are, until its too late?

And how do you know when a website changes its mind and starts selling the information?

you don't.. obviously.

not the same thing though is it?

one is like someone giving someone else your address and phone number after a conversation with you.. you'd just avoid talking to them again if possible

the other is like your telephone company recording everything you say playing it to someone else to see if they're interested in anything on the tape and then giving them your address and phone number

one's bad manners.. the other's illegal

Sirius · 13-03-2008, 17:29

PhormUKPRteam

I will make it as simple as possable.

I will not accept your system if my data touches any piece of equipment that has been installed anywhere in the VM network or yours. I do not agree with a opt out i only agree with a OPT in. I repeat i will not except my data going anywhere near you and your spyware. If it does then i will dump ALL my services with VM. That's a lot of money they will lose.

BTW

Have a nice day

.

Traduk · 13-03-2008, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

So how do you know who they are, until its too late?

And how do you know when a website changes its mind and starts selling the information?

Every website you visit has information eg your IP and that is available to the webmaster or anyone entrusted to access the information. For most people that information is irrelevant as the ISP is the privacy guardian between a fairly meaningless number and a name and address.

If you give additional information in conducting business with a website then if it's commercial there is trust which if breached not only becomes a violation of the data protection act but is likely to see that commercial enterprise heading for a bankruptcy court.

If the site is a leisure or interest site such as this one then the trust for the information given is placed in the hands of the owner\s and any that have the rights to look. Of course sites such as these have a responsibility not to allow that information to leak out and as such you can reasonably expect that anonymous "TheNorm" will be all anybody would ever know about you. The choice is available for everybody to use aliases or if you wished you could use your full name, address, e-mail address and telephone number. I would definitely not advise that you do.

Privacy from those that wish to peddle you something is something that I wish to retain. I had to use full names in forums I frequented back in the 90's and eventually dumped that ISP when spam filters failed through log sizes. Tens of thousands of mail spam mail address's were harvested by the easy link with names & ISP. I was inundated for years with spam.

IMO if something on the web can be exploited for gain it will be. If people can be naively duped they will be and I put my trust in those who by my payment have a duty of care. That trust is currently being tested.

popper · 13-03-2008, 17:48

Quote:

I put my trust in those who by my payment have a duty of care.
That trust is currently being tested.

hence all the 'in good faith' legal clauses you see in any T&C.

flowrebmit · 13-03-2008, 17:58

I am not sure that I would class what the 3 ISPs are intending on doing as 'in good faith' i.e. are doing this honestly and without ulterior motive?

http://www.davenportlyons.co.uk/html...ert.php?id=521

Sirius · 13-03-2008, 17:59

Hows this for an answer about data retention from BT

Quote:

* How long do they keep the data? Seconds - or up to 14 days?

If you have BT Webwise activated, on each navigation, a 'data digest' is created consisting of URL, search terms submitted to a major search engine, and the top 10 most frequently-occurring page keywords from the page (which are cleaned to remove email addresses, numbers and names). This is matched against a list of advertising product categories. After the match is made, 'data digest' is deleted permanently and immediately. The 'data digest' is never written to disk so it is never stored. The matching information is only kept for 6 months and then deleted permanently.

So for 6 months they will have a record of what i did

**Mick** · 13-03-2008, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

If I carry out a conversation in public, I shouldn't be surprised if people overhear what I'm saying.

Poor analogy - Firstly, people might overhear a conversation, but its meaningless to the listener - if they start talking about random events, such as 'My Paul went to Tesco today' or 'Did you watch Eastenders lastnight? Shocking wasn't it?'

The listener wouldn't be able to pick up anything from this conversation that was remotely interesting or relevant to gather up any kind of significant profile and this is the difference between a real life conversation and the internet, where data is tracked to serve relevant ads.

Secondly, if I was going to have a conversation where I thought it was a private and a sensitive one - I wouldn't be talking in public now would I?

TheNorm · 13-03-2008, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Poor analogy - Firstly, ....

I've seen couples in airports saying to each other "now where do we get a taxi" only to have some guy come up to them, presumably an unlicensed cab driver.

Quote:

...Secondly, if I was going to have a conversation where I thought it was a private and a sensitive one - I wouldn't be talking in public now would I?

Exactly my point. If you considered your data to be sensitive, you would use https (or another form of encryption). By not doing so, isn't the implication the data aren't private? I agree, eavesdropping is impolite - but is it illegal?