Pesky immigrants, they're taking all our jobs

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

You're ignoring the fact that this government is happy to pay lazy trash to sit on their arses claiming dole money while foreign workers come to the country, do the job and send the money home. BTW did you read any of the links, the actual benefit to this country of immigrant workers is tiny, but the benefit to this country of getting a load of work-shy wasters off theirs backsides and force them into work would be immeasurable!

Forcing the workshy into work would result in a workforce unwilling to actually work.
Why should an employer have to pay someone to laze around at work being unproductive?

And yes, I did follow those links and read them, and as I said, they neglect to take into consideration that without those immigrant workers, the work would not get done, which would turn the small GDP increase into a larger GDP decrease.

I'm not sure, when I was a student, many years ago, it was traditional to exploit the tax advantages of earning up to your allowance by working all hours flower cutting, potato picking, pea processing, etc, when you could, during the holidays. We did get grants to be students, then, of course..

Presumably 'these days' any earnings count towards the threshold of when you need to start paying back the student loan, so there is less incentive to earn any money until you can 'really' afford it

That is a totally cynical, subjective & unresearched comment, I admit, but I wonder if there is any truth in it?

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Forcing the workshy into work would result in a workforce unwilling to actually work.

Hmmm, I think this statement may have something wrong with it! Workshy means unwilling to work.... they are already unwilling to work. I propose that they are made to work for their dole money, maybe then they'd get their arses in gear and get a real job. Make them pick the flowers and fruit that immigrants do, for their dole money. Other countries do it, so why should our country be any different.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

Hmmm, I think this statement may have something wrong with it! Workshy means unwilling to work.... they are already unwilling to work. I propose that they are made to work for their dole money, maybe then they'd get their arses in gear and get a real job. Make them pick the flowers and fruit that immigrants do, for their dole money. Other countries do it, so why should our country be any different.

Or they'll just do more of what they currently do, steal from shops and sell around the estate (used to get them knocking on my door all the time trying to sell anything from bacon to inkjet printers).
Have you actually lived amongst the workshy and gotten to know them?

[Chrysalis]

more stereotyping against young males bbc as usual. I am not disputing people refusing to work and such but the way the article is written has a clear agenda.

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Or they'll just do more of what they currently do, steal from shops and sell around the estate (used to get them knocking on my door all the time trying to sell anything from bacon to inkjet printers).
Have you actually lived amongst the workshy and gotten to know them?

Yes thanks, and I won't be going back, quite happy where I am now. I also happen to work in west london in an area that is probably 25% asylum refugees, 25% polish, 40% asian and 10% white, so I'm well versed with the type of person you are talking about. Last friday in the pub across the road from my office we were offered cameras and watches by a couple of 'salt of the earth' fellows!

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

Yes thanks, and I won't be going back, quite happy where I am now. I also happen to work in west london in an area that is probably 25% asylum refugees, 25% polish, 40% asian and 10% white, so I'm well versed with the type of person you are talking about. Last friday in the pub across the road from my office we were offered cameras and watches by a couple of 'salt of the earth' fellows!

So those who are allowed to work but are living off benefits (lets not forget asylum seekers aren't allowed to work thanks to the right wing press and public) and supplimenting their income with criminal activities, are in your opinion more likely to set themselves straight and get jobs if their benefits are cut, or increase their criminal activities?

Incidently, do you not get many white Polish or asylum seekers?

It is all to easy these days to use and apply the term "workshy" on people that you don't know and have no idea of their personal circumstance. For me and my family just to maintain our benefit standard of living i need to earn £14,000 a year. Most jobs where i live are in the £10,000 - £12,000 range and i would not be able to manage. I am not alone in this equation it applies to many thoudans of people in the UK.

Before anyone says that benefit gives too good a standard living it doesn't standard of living is not great but liveable where it impacts is things like rent and council tax and in my case prescriptions which would amount to about an extra £500 a month and while that doesn't sound a lot to some of you it's enough to complicate the situation.

Also before anyone says in work benefits wouldn't cover it all and i have discussed this with someone who is now a friend at the jobcentre. This government has it's reasons for wanting to stir up trouble on the benefit front and biggest reason is they have used all the other benefits over the years to hide unemployment and now it is coming home to roost.

But rather then admit bad handling no we will slap a label on all claimants and get public opinion against them so no one says a thing when we hit them all hard.

[Xaccers]

Um other than you Rizzy, who's mentioned people on benefits who aren't workshy?

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

So those who are allowed to work but are living off benefits (lets not forget asylum seekers aren't allowed to work thanks to the right wing press and public) and supplimenting their income with criminal activities, are in your opinion more likely to set themselves straight and get jobs if their benefits are cut, or increase their criminal activities?

Incidently, do you not get many white Polish or asylum seekers?

My, you must be making yourself feel very big trying pick holes in posts every which way. You were the one asking about my past encounters with non-working people.

I don't have an entire breakdown of every asylum seeker ever to have claimed it in the UK, western europe, the world, of in this particular part of London, but going from my experiences I would say that 99% of the asylum seekers in the area around my office are from north africa with a few from the middle east, and if you push me, I'd say it would be fairly rare to get a white asylum seeker these days after the fall of the former soviet union.

I don't particularly give a rats **** if these people turn into model citizens, probably not, but not giving them free handouts from the state would be a start, or are you entirely happy with the situation? I don't know, maybe you're sat at home now with a room full of stolen goods watching Jeremy Kyle and wondering when you can appear. You certainly seem to be overly concerned that the long-term unemployed who refuse to work are left to their own devices.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

I don't particularly give a rats **** if these people turn into model citizens, probably not, but not giving them free handouts from the state would be a start, or are you entirely happy with the situation? I don't know, maybe you're sat at home now with a room full of stolen goods watching Jeremy Kyle and wondering when you can appear. You certainly seem to be overly concerned that the long-term unemployed who refuse to work are left to their own devices.

I was happy with asylum seekers being able to work to pay their way until their case was heard, however right wingers and anti-immigrant/asylum seeker groups managed to get things changed so that rather than paying their way, they have to manage on lower benefits than some scrote who's not done a days work but happened to be born here.
So how do you feel that skilled people who've left their home country for fear of their lives are now here, not being put to work but instead being forced to live on benefits?

You say you know what workshy are like, you say you know they suppliment their benefit payments through crime, so do you truly believe that if their benefits were stopped they'd happily get low paid jobs and not increase their criminal activities?

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I was happy with asylum seekers being able to work to pay their way until their case was heard, however right wingers and anti-immigrant/asylum seeker groups managed to get things changed so that rather than paying their way, they have to manage on lower benefits than some scrote who's not done a days work but happened to be born here.
So how do you feel that skilled people who've left their home country for fear of their lives are now here, not being put to work but instead being forced to live on benefits?

You say you know what workshy are like, you say you know they suppliment their benefit payments through crime, so do you truly believe that if their benefits were stopped they'd happily get low paid jobs and not increase their criminal activities?

No, but on the other hand I wasn't advocating just stopping benefits and letting them have more time to commit their crimes. I was suggesting they be made to work for a living at jobs they definitely wouldn't want in order to force them. I'd also bring back borstal-like institutions to make sure youngsters were put on the straight and narrow like they used to be and no I'm not advocating institutional child-abuse before that's in your next post. The trouble these days is there is no way that society can make these people snap out of it, the police are tied up doing paperwork and have minimal effect these days for fear of being disciplined. The courts don't impose anything like realistic sentences, mainly due tot he fact the prisons are full to bursting. These people know their rights better than their alphabet and can get off with anything, and this government has done nothing to stop it the last 10 years. Instead they've give us more glorified shabby traffic wardens, sorry PCSO's.

You seem to post as someone who thinks they have all the answers, so what is your answer? You like picking other people's opinions/ideas/thoughts apart, what are yours?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

No, but on the other hand I wasn't advocating just stopping benefits and letting them have more time to commit their crimes. I was suggesting they be made to work for a living at jobs they definitely wouldn't want in order to force them.

How would you force them?
Why should employers have to put up with people who they either can't sack, or workers who don't care if they do get sacked?

I'd remove the situation where someone can be better off if they remain on benefits, introduce a "army housing" policy on social housing, where the better you keep the property, the better the property will be made/you moved to, and if you do not adhere to the terms of your social housing contract, you will be moved into more basic accomodation.
I'd also re-introduce (this time fully) the Tripartite education system.

Oh great so we penalise people for not having the money to have a lovely house . As someone that likes his statistics Xaccers can you give me some for how many of these workshy scroungers you think there are ??.

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

How would you force them?
Why should employers have to put up with people who they either can't sack, or workers who don't care if they do get sacked?

I'd remove the situation where someone can be better off if they remain on benefits, introduce a "army housing" policy on social housing, where the better you keep the property, the better the property will be made/you moved to, and if you do not adhere to the terms of your social housing contract, you will be moved into more basic accomodation.
I'd also re-introduce (this time fully) the Tripartite education system.

You misunderstand. I'm not adocating they are given nice cushy jobs in offices or factories (Do we have any of them in the UK these days), I'd make them pick up litter, clean up grafitti etc. crappy jobs that they don't want to do, then maybe if they then decide that working in a real job doesn't look so bad, a phased withdrawel of benefits from them.

Never heard of that army housing policy. Must have come in during the last few years. Normally you'd get posted, request a house at the new base, and get one according to whether you were commissioned (Officers quarters) or non-commissioned (Normal married quarters) and what was available. Depending on the number of kids you have, you might get more bedrooms. I think we were only ever moved twice mid-posting to a different house, once to a slightly better house and once from a set of quarters in a german town into one on the main base. You could always put your name down and request a better quarter in a different set of quarters, but I don't think it was ever on how well you'd kept your old one. You had to keep them clean, because if you didn't you'd get fined when you had you inspection before you left it.