Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Berealwith]

Here's a thought.......there must be something out there that, you can set to open a web page then it holds a page for 5 secs then switches at ramdom to another, set it with a time say 4 hours a day.........how cool would that be, just spam em with a load of crap info.............Is there anything out there ?

[JackSon]

Am unsure if data generated by that will be any less valuable to Phorm than regular. I imagine that the data they can collect, whether it legitimate browsing or not gets sold in exactly the same way. And if it just a matter of selling in bulk, if you are 'spamming' them with data you are acually doing them a favour maybe.

[none]

Originally Posted by Berealwith

Here's a thought.......there must be something out there that, you can set to open a web page then it holds a page for 5 secs then switches at ramdom to another, set it with a time say 4 hours a day.........how cool would that be, just spam em with a load of crap info.............Is there anything out there ?

I think the trackMeNot Firefox extension kinda does what you are looking for I think. It sends out junk queries to popular search-engines to help obfuscate your browsing patterns

[JackSon]

Another possibility of having something make your browser visit large numbers of random web pages is that it will increae the range of your profile, listing you as interested in loads of things, more than you would be normally perhaps, and thus making your profile suitable to be sold to more of Phorm's advertising clients as you are classed as a potential interestee.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by none

About time this got some mainstream media attention, Guardian - http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...ring_deal.html even this thread is mentioned!

Not only mentioned but the 95% opt out in the survey is the headline!

The article analagises (is that a word sounds like something you would take for a headache) to Googles tracking abilities, however you chose to visit Google to search, you could equally visit Ask, Yahoo, or one of many other search engines.

You can of course change your ISP however that is a little more of a task than typing yahoo.com instead of google.com and as the major ISPs all seem to be opting in the change will be difficult if there is no alternative.

[cookie_365]

Can one of the techies among you just clarify this?

They say that they won't view information on https pages. Is that because it's technically impossible for Virgin to 'see' what's on an https page and so impossible to pass it on to Phorm, and that they therefore CAN'T view it, or just that they're trying to persuade us that they are choosing not to view it even though they COULD?

Originally Posted by none

About time this got some mainstream media attention, Guardian - http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...ring_deal.html even this thread is mentioned!

Good article. This quote (if true) seems to dispel a lot of the alarmist talk in this thread.

So, no personal information about you. No IP address information. Your search history and pages visited aren't stored. But many people are uneasy about it, feeling that it's spying.

I still would prefer them not to do this but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[CaptJamieHunter]

Submission to the ICO made via their website and letter sent to Virgin Media. Thanks for the template too.

As someone who's only ever been with Telewest/Virgin for their broadband provision (had way too many dial up ISPs to remember though!), is there a helpful doc on how to go about getting an alternative ISP set up?

I loathe BT and don't want to give them any more money than I absolutely have to if I do switch.

[cookie_365]

Originally Posted by ahardie

Good article. This quote (if true) seems to dispel a lot of the alarmist talk in this thread.
I still would prefer them not to do this but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Except it's plainly not true. They WILL be monitoring personal information. I'm not sure about https info (see my post a couple back) but for ordinary http info they definitely will.

As an example, even the badphorm site itself has a registration page that isn't https. The page asks for (though doesn't demand) your real name. And also asks for a password. So regardless of whether you choose to opt out of the cookie thing Phorm will still see your name and password. If that isn't personal information I don't know what is. And given that people tend to reuse the same passwords on other sites that could be a way of discovering - say - bank account information.

In itself the cookie issue and the idea of having to opt out of having a general classification of your own browsing habits is a serious invasion of privacy, but it's a red herring. It's easily solved by blocking the cookie. Yes, you shouldn't need to have to do that, but there's your solution. All this talk about the cookie is diverting attention from the main issue:

Regardless of whether you like or not, a company which is not controlled by Virgin, has links to Russia, and is essentially the same company that has already been behind a malware/sypware attack, will be able to view the content of any web page (possibly excluding https pages) you browse to. Any web page. Including being able to view anything you enter into forms on those pages. Including email address fields, address fields, password fields. Bank account fields. National insurance number fields. Anything.

They say they won't store that information. How do I know? What guarantees have I got that they won't? Even if they don't intend to, how do I know they won't accidentally store that information in some kind of temporary file? How do I know that they none of their employees will maliciously tap into the data and steal it? How do I know that they won't be subject to court proceedings in some Orwellian banana republic - USA for instance and be legally required to release that information? How do I know that they won't contract out any of their processes to even shadier companies?

They say they won't monitor numbers. How do I know? How can I trust them not to?

I appreciate that Virgin itself can already monitor this information if it wants. However, for all their faults, Virgin is a huge brand with a reputation to protect who I have chosen to trust with my internet connection. I have not chosen to trust Phorm.

I've been extremely happy with Virgin so far, but this is the closest I've come to switching to landline BB. And I don't even have a BT landline.

[none]

just read this - http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...ewtopic.php?19

Response from Virginmedia
I am sorry that the information that we are going to start using phorm
has worried you, here is some information to help give you a better
understading in regards to what this is.

A safer experience

Webwise will help customers avoid scams, such as 'phishing' - this is
where someone pretends to be a well known brand, like a bank, but is
looking to steal confidential information. Users might receive an email
that appears to be authentic, asking them to enter details such as
account numbers and passwords, which are then stolen and used
fraudulently. Commonly known as 'phishing', these websites can be hard
to spot as they are designed to look just like genuine websites.

Webwise checks these sites against a list of fraudulent sites and warns
customers if they're heading to one. They're given the option to
continue to that site, so Webwise won't restrict their online experience
in any way, but at least they'll be able to decide for themselves, and
avoid the chance of this form of identity theft. In this way Webwise
helps to secure our customers' privacy.

A more relevant browsing experience

Another great thing about Webwise is that it can help reduce irrelevant
advertising. As customers browse web pages, Webwise looks at things like
search terms, and learns what topics might be of interest. This is done
without collecting any personal information, so once again their privacy
is protected. These topics are then used to help filter out adverts that
might be irrelevant - instead they'll simply see an advert that will
match a topic they're are more interested in.

Don't worry, they won't see any more adverts than they currently do,
they'll just be more relevant. For example if they searched for keywords
like 'Paris' and 'Eurostar', instead of random uninteresting adverts,
they might see an advert for French hotels instead.


Protecting customers' privacy

Webwise has been designed from the ground up to protect our customers'
privacy and anonymity. As the system only learns about topics of
interest, it does this anonymously, ensuring their privacy is completely
protected.

Neither the web addresses, nor search terms they use are stored. They
are purely matched to an advertising topic and then discarded.
Webwise doesn't store their internet (IP) address or keep track of their
browsing. The system or advertisers won't know who you are or the
websites they've visited.
No personally identifiable information such as email addresses,
surnames, street addresses, or phone numbers are ever gathered.
No sensitive or personal financial information, such as credit card
numbers, login IDs, passwords or bank account numbers are ever gathered.
We found that this system met our high standards for simplicity and
privacy - so customers' privacy is assured. These privacy standards were
also verified independently by Ernst & Young who conducted a detailed
audit of the whole process and Webwise solution.

Customers won't be forced to take up Webwise, so they'll be able to keep
their internet experience as it is now.

We're working to deliver the Webwise solution at the moment and we'll
let you know when it's ready to be 'switched on'. Given the benefits of
Webwise, we're pleased to be offering this to our customers soon, making
your web experience safer and more relevant.



what a load of old toot, all under the guise of A safer experience ... pleeeeassseeeeee someone pass me the sick bucket!!!!!!!

[CaptJamieHunter]

I've posted on the Guardian blog page mentioned earlier. The author seems to have missed the point slightly, saying that there is no identiable information passed to Phorm. Simplistic, naive or apologising for Phorm? As you say cookie, it's about trusting Phorm. We don't and we're asking questions.

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by cookie_365

Except it's plainly not true. They WILL be monitoring personal information. I'm not sure about https info (see my post a couple back) but for ordinary http info they definitely will.

As an example, even the badphorm site itself has a registration page that isn't https. The page asks for (though doesn't demand) your real name. And also asks for a password. So regardless of whether you choose to opt out of the cookie thing Phorm will still see your name and password. If that isn't personal information I don't know what is. And given that people tend to reuse the same passwords on other sites that could be a way of discovering - say - bank account information.

In itself the cookie issue and the idea of having to opt out of having a general classification of your own browsing habits is a serious invasion of privacy, but it's a red herring. It's easily solved by blocking the cookie. Yes, you shouldn't need to have to do that, but there's your solution. All this talk about the cookie is diverting attention from the main issue:

Regardless of whether you like or not, a company which is not controlled by Virgin, has links to Russia, and is essentially the same company that has already been behind a malware/sypware attack, will be able to view the content of any web page (possibly excluding https pages) you browse to. Any web page. Including being able to view anything you enter into forms on those pages. Including email address fields, address fields, password fields. Bank account fields. National insurance number fields. Anything.

They say they won't store that information. How do I know? What guarantees have I got that they won't? Even if they don't intend to, how do I know they won't accidentally store that information in some kind of temporary file? How do I know that they none of their employees will maliciously tap into the data and steal it? How do I know that they won't be subject to court proceedings in some Orwellian banana republic - USA for instance and be legally required to release that information? How do I know that they won't contract out any of their processes to even shadier companies?

They say they won't monitor numbers. How do I know? How can I trust them not to?

I appreciate that Virgin itself can already monitor this information if it wants. However, for all their faults, Virgin is a huge brand with a reputation to protect who I have chosen to trust with my internet connection. I have not chosen to trust Phorm.

I've been extremely happy with Virgin so far, but this is the closest I've come to switching to landline BB. And I don't even have a BT landline.

Thank you. You've just summed-up exactly how I feel about this. Did Virgin really think that their customers wouldn't care if they did this? Surely no company (not even one as clueless as Virgin sometimes appear to be) could be that out-of-touch with their customer base?

[JackSon]

Originally Posted by cookie_365

Virgin is a huge brand with a reputation to protect who I have chosen to trust with my internet connection. I have not chosen to trust Phorm.

That really is a brilliant statement. QFT

[aMIGA_dUDE]

Originally Posted by JackSon

Am unsure if data generated by that will be any less valuable to Phorm than regular. I imagine that the data they can collect, whether it legitimate browsing or not gets sold in exactly the same way. And if it just a matter of selling in bulk, if you are 'spamming' them with data you are acually doing them a favour maybe.

No you wouldn't. The more rubbish they get worse there business will become. It a big issue even for likes of google.

http://www.schneier.com/essay-119.html

Now it would be trivial implemented this to make it imposable for them to know if this is going on. All the source code is already been made public with Firefox. Also it would be possible to gain information on business which advertise with this service. As such we could also hit them where it hurts as publishing list business that do business with Phorm would be easy as they Phorm will have to tell us to make money this is there akilies heal. Then go on to embargo those business with filters.

PS Phorm will not like have title of SPYCOMS, i don't care sue me!
Spying with communications in anyway then that is SPYCOMS.
Well done Phorm you have honer of being first business in the world to have title of SPYCOMS.

[eth01]

Haha. Theres more than one way to skin a rabbit..