Rant - electricity costs!

[superbiatch]

I've just received a breakdown of my electricity usage. I live in a private apartment which I own managed by a landlord who provide our electricity - there is no gas supply. Our electricity is non negotiable as the whole block has a contract with a supplier for 12 months, which is reviewed annually. Electricity is sold to us by our landlord with no profit made by them. So at the moment we pay 10.983p per kWh, which is fixed until August this year with no standing charge.

So my breakdown shows my hot water tank uses 6000kWh and if i use it for the bare minimum a day (2 hours), it will cost me £1.31. My main radiator in the living room also uses 2000kWh, and by using it 4 hours per day will cost me 43.93 p per day.

I live in a 1 bedroom apartment on my own and work full time, this seems extremely high. I know i've got to pay it, but an estimated £100 a month electricity bill will almost have to make me sell up - what with other costs. Its disgusting, how on earth are people expected to pay these ridiculous costs

Its kind of ironic, as these apartments were renovated from original 60's council tower blocks. The renovation was to encourage low earners in the local area to buy at low cost - but with these appliance costs, i may as well live in a 3 bedroom house with 2 other people!

Rant over

[Tali]

Electricity suppliers aren't allowed to force domestic customers into a timed contract. Of course, if your land lord is being a proxy for your electric your contract is probably direct with him.

With regards to how much each item uses, the £100 per month does seem a little excessive. Do you have access to your meter? The best way to do it is to read your meter at regular intervals.

You may also have got your units mixed up slightly. When you say your hot water tank uses 6000kWh, where are you getting that information from? The average domestic consumer only uses around 4000kWh per year.


If the hot water tank is rated as 6kW, then if you turned it on for one hour, it would cost approx 60p - ah! the penny has dropped.

But based on what you've said there, that still only accounts for around £60 per month, then you need to add on your other leccy charges. I would say around £70 per month sounds about right given the current prices.

DO you know if you're on Economy 7? If you've got electric heating, you may be on E7. Do you know if the radiator is a storage radiator? On E7, the water heater and radiators come on at night when leccy is cheaper.


Sorry for rambling; it's late.

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by Tali

Electricity suppliers aren't allowed to force domestic customers into a timed contract. Of course, if your land lord is being a proxy for your electric your contract is probably direct with him.

With regards to how much each item uses, the £100 per month does seem a little excessive. Do you have access to your meter? The best way to do it is to read your meter at regular intervals.

You may also have got your units mixed up slightly. When you say your hot water tank uses 6000kWh, where are you getting that information from? The average domestic consumer only uses around 4000kWh per year.


If the hot water tank is rated as 6kW, then if you turned it on for one hour, it would cost approx 60p - ah! the penny has dropped.

But based on what you've said there, that still only accounts for around £60 per month, then you need to add on your other leccy charges. I would say around £70 per month sounds about right given the current prices.

DO you know if you're on Economy 7? If you've got electric heating, you may be on E7. Do you know if the radiator is a storage radiator? On E7, the water heater and radiators come on at night when leccy is cheaper.


Sorry for rambling; it's late.

Thanks for your reply, i know its late but this extra stress means i can't sleep

Firstly, yes the contract is with the landlord who is legally not allowed to make profit on us.

We're not on economy 7 unfortunately, even though i suggested this a while back.

I don't have access to my meter (even though i have asked on numerous occasions!), apparently because my neighbours is in the same place (the riser area between us), i'm not allowed to see hers and she's not allowed to see mine.

As far as i can see, i've reduced my costs as much as possible. I use my radiators (electric panel heaters) for 1 hour per morning and 1 hour per evening, unless its really cold. As for the hot water tank, 2 hours (on a timer) is the minimum to manage a shower and hair wash. I even eat at friends/family most evenings per week so i don't use my electric oven/cooker on a regular basis.

Its getting to the point where i'll have to make a choice about heating or water In this day and age, its just wrong

[danielf]

Originally Posted by superbiatch

<snip>

I don't have access to my meter (even though i have asked on numerous occasions!), apparently because my neighbours is in the same place (the riser area between us), i'm not allowed to see hers and she's not allowed to see mine.
<snip>

Eh? This sounds very odd. Surely, as a consumer you should be able to check your meter readings? Have you tried CAB?

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by danielf

Eh? This sounds very odd. Surely, as a consumer you should be able to check your meter readings? Have you tried CAB?

I did think this was strange, a key is required to check the readings. I will try to find out if i can legally check my own meter though. I haven't contacted CAB as its so hard to get an appointment around working hours, but i think i will make it a priority to get their advice.

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by superbiatch

I don't have access to my meter (even though i have asked on numerous occasions!), apparently because my neighbours is in the same place (the riser area between us), i'm not allowed to see hers and she's not allowed to see mine.

I live in an apartment & the electricity/water meters for the 6 dwellings around each stairwell are in a cupboard under the stairs, accessible to all. It certainly seems wrong that you can't read yours...

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

SUperBee, are you sure you have a separate electricity feed for your apartment? I think you might have one electricity supply coming into the block and your landlord charges all the separate apartments what he estimates they use (especially as he doesnt give you access to the meter-i assume there is one bill to him only). If I was you I would get your landlord to fit a meter for the electricity that comes into your apartment only. Basically a relative of mine has bought a house which is converted into 2 flats. There is one electricity meter and one bill from EDF electricity. However each flat has a separate meter which the previous owner fitted. This shows the consumption of electricity by each flat, and you know exactly what you have been charged. I didn't know that its a legal requiremnt to be able to read your own meter reading, if it is then this would be the best way to do it. (assuming the landlord is willing to pay for the extra meters)

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

SUperBee, are you sure you have a separate electricity feed for your apartment? I think you might have one electricity supply coming into the block and your landlord charges all the separate apartments what he estimates they use (especially as he doesnt give you access to the meter-i assume there is one bill to him only). If I was you I would get your landlord to fit a meter for the electricity that comes into your apartment only. Basically a relative of mine has bought a house which is converted into 2 flats. There is one electricity meter and one bill from EDF electricity. However each flat has a separate meter which the previous owner fitted. This shows the consumption of electricity by each flat, and you know exactly what you have been charged. I didn't know that its a legal requiremnt to be able to read your own meter reading, if it is then this would be the best way to do it. (assuming the landlord is willing to pay for the extra meters)

Thanks for that, but yes i defnitely have my own meter and i'm only being charged for my own electricity aparently. I'm getting on the phone today to the management company to get some clarification on this.

[Angua]

Whatever happens you should be able to check your own meter readings and your bills do seem rather high.

If as you say your landlord pays the main bill then re-charges you accordingly, as tenants/owners that should still give you the right to approve supplier especially to make sure they are not a "business" supply which can charge 17.5% VAT, and if you do all have individual meters why can't you each choose your own supplier?

Also worth checking Energywatch to see if they have any information.

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by Angua

Whatever happens you should be able to check your own meter readings and your bills do seem rather high.

If as you say your landlord pays the main bill then re-charges you accordingly, as tenants/owners that should still give you the right to approve supplier especially to make sure they are not a "business" supply which can charge 17.5% VAT, and if you do all have individual meters why can't you each choose your own supplier?

Also worth checking Energywatch to see if they have any information.

I wasn't involved in the choice of supplier, and agree entirely that we as owner/tenants should have the right to be involved.

EDIT:- Have just spoken to the CAB and they are telling me that its probably within my service contract i have with the management company, so i'll get looking through that to see if its covered. Apparently the CAB can't get involved until i find out if its within the contract

[Angua]

Another thought about being able to see your own meter, surely you should have the right to check they are re-billing you the right amount & on the right meter.

As the bills are organised through a Management Company you need to make sure the electricity supplier are not treating them as a business when it comes to bills. You should be classed as domestic supply. The extra VAT can make a huge difference to your bill and the companies are not bothered at which rate they charge and will refund if the wrong rate has been set.

On some converted flats the company I work for looks after we have the silly situation of the ground floor flat meter being outside & the upstairs meter being in the ground floor flat utility room. So bills getting paid depended on the mood of the downstairs tenant in handing the bills over.

Main part of my job is paying utility bills for our tenants

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by Angua

Another thought about being able to see your own meter, surely you should have the right to check they are re-billing you the right amount & on the right meter.

As the bills are organised through a Management Company you need to make sure the electricity supplier are not treating them as a business when it comes to bills. You should be classed as domestic supply. The extra VAT can make a huge difference to your bill and the companies are not bothered at which rate they charge and will refund if the wrong rate has been set.

On some converted flats the company I work for looks after we have the silly situation of the ground floor flat meter being outside & the upstairs meter being in the ground floor flat utility room. So bills getting paid depended on the mood of the downstairs tenant in handing the bills over.

Main part of my job is paying utility bills for our tenants

Apparently I can gain access between the hours of 8.30 and 4.00 when the caretaker will let me look. This is not much help really as i work out of area and am well left for work at 8am and often don't get home til gone 6

[danielf]

Originally Posted by superbiatch

Apparently I can gain access between the hours of 8.30 and 4.00 when the caretaker will let me look. This is not much help really as i work out of area and am well left for work at 8am and often don't get home til gone 6

This sounds unfortunate, but not completely unreasonable imo. Is there any way you can fit this in with any other events that require absence from work?

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by danielf

This sounds unfortunate, but not completely unreasonable imo. Is there any way you can fit this in with any other events that require absence from work?

I think i might have to, its not a major problem if it was just a one off but ideally i would like to nip out when the washing machine is on etc to see how many units are used - like most other people can do Suppose i'm just asking too much.

[Tali]

i'm not allowed to see hers and she's not allowed to see mine.

That sounds very odd indeed. There's nothing legal I'm aware that says someone can't see someone elses meter. It's quite common for blocks of flats to have all the meters in one cupboard.

I think you might have one electricity supply coming into the block and your landlord charges all the separate apartments what he estimates they use

That is something that is possible. While not common, sub-metering is a known and accepted practice. Unfortunately, the access you have to the sub-meters and rights to ask for visibility of the readings in a private arrangement is defined in the contract with the re-seller. (Additionally, the land-lord can sell on the electricity to you at a higher price if he wants to. There used to be a maximum re-sell price, but I'm not sure whether this is still the case.)

if you do all have individual meters why can't you each choose your own supplier?

If there is a sub-metering arrangement, there will only be one 'settlement' meter point in industry systems. Anything on the consumers side of the meter has nothing to do with electricity suppliers (as long as it's not fraudulent).

Apparently I can gain access between the hours of 8.30 and 4.00 when the caretaker will let me look

What sort of lock is on the cupboard? If it's a standard meter cupboard lock (triangular key) I can arrange for one to be sent out to you. If it's a Yale lock or any other sort of lock, I can't help with that I'm afraid.

It's good that you will be able to get access, even if it's not at convenient times.

One more check worth doing, to make sure you've got the right meter is to turn off everything in your flat at the consumer unit (fuse box) and then check that the meter isn't recording any usage. If it is, it's wired up incorrectly or you've been told the wrong meter number.

Good luck, hope you can sort it.