Right or wrong

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I said one would come along to support the robber.

So what do you want to happen to the VICTIM.

Long jail sentence

Made to walk with a sign that Say's "HEY look i defended myself, I am the bad boy".

Get real. This man was attacked with a knife and rightly defended himself against someone who by having a knife and using it was attempting to murder the victim. The robber got in my opinion a taste of his own medicine.

But hey there is always those that will support the Criminal and not the victim. Are you a Human Rights Lawyer by any chance ?

Would you prefer a system where the police just say "oh right, you were defending yourself? No need to investigate here then, be on your way" in such cases?

No xaccers no one is saying anything like that but how about a system that keeps it's gob shut till a proper investigation has been done. How about a system that doesn't haul an obvious victim off to a police station straight away. End of the day this guy had been working allday was about to go home when a piece of **** wanted his earnings for nothing.

Shawty if you really think that people that kill even if it is in self defence should be punished well what can i say it's ludicrous because if we go by what you say we basically make a criminals charter and they will make use of it.

Someone comes at me with a knife i define reasonable force as anything it takes to save my life if that means killing my attacker fair enough. You attack someone with a knife you take your chances and always run the risk of dying thats how it is i believe there is going to be a government campaign highlighting how dangerous knives can be because they can injure or kill you if you carry them looks like they have their latest poster child for the campaign.

One stab wound killed the **** the VICTIM had multiple injuries on multiple parts of his body do the math as they say.

[jkat]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

No xaccers no one is saying anything like that but how about a system that keeps it's gob shut till a proper investigation has been done. How about a system that doesn't haul an obvious victim off to a police station straight away. End of the day this guy had been working allday was about to go home when a piece of **** wanted his earnings for nothing.

Shawty if you really think that people that kill even if it is in self defence should be punished well what can i say it's ludicrous because if we go by what you say we basically make a criminals charter and they will make use of it.

Someone comes at me with a knife i define reasonable force as anything it takes to save my life if that means killing my attacker fair enough. You attack someone with a knife you take your chances and always run the risk of dying thats how it is i believe there is going to be a government campaign highlighting how dangerous knives can be because they can injure or kill you if you carry them looks like they have their latest poster child for the campaign.

One stab wound killed the **** the VICTIM had multiple injuries on multiple parts of his body do the math as they say.

lol it was so obvious! how do u know he didnt know his attacker?
all that people are saying is he hasnt been charged, i'll run that pass u again "he hasnt been charged" and the investigation is routine, the same would apply if the police had shot him.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

No xaccers no one is saying anything like that but how about a system that keeps it's gob shut till a proper investigation has been done. How about a system that doesn't haul an obvious victim off to a police station straight away.

You mean like a proper investigation that has been done, and then handed over to the CPS for their appraisal to ensure that 1. a proper investigation has been done and 2. if any case needs to be answered, it is.

A man has been killed. That is a crime. As with many crimes*, there are defences, in this case, acting to defend oneself from harm. It cannot just be discharged by the police. It must follow due process and be passed to the CPS who will decide if a case should be passed to the courts.

Why are people having such difficulty understanding that just because something has been passed to the CPS it doesn't mean a court case will be required, nor an conviction likely.
Is it really that complicated?



*other examples which spring to mind include:
Selling someone a realistic imitation firearm (such as a cap gun or black water pistol)
Manufacturing a realistic imitation firearm (so no more building plastic models)
Modifying an imitation firearm so that it becomes realistic (spraying an imitation firearm, which must have it's principle colour as one of a list of bright colours or transparent, black to make it look real)
Importing a realistic imitation firearm (so check your kids' luggage!)

All of the above are now offences (yes, Argos, Game, HMV etc are criminal organisations), however there are specific defences, such as if the offence was committed for making a film (supplying RIFs for the next season of Ultimate Farce), or re-enactment displays, and also thankfully "acting out of military or law enforcement scenarios for the purpose of leisure"

All the above offences could be investigated by the police and passed to the CPS to decide if there is sufficient evidence that a defence is available or not.

Originally Posted by shawty

...At the end of the day, he killed someone and we cant let something like that go un punished?...

So you think that no matter what the circumstances are, anyone who kills someone else for whatever reason should be punished?

IMO you should only be punished if you intentionally do something wrong. What was this shopkeeper supposed to do in his situation? Allow the robber to kill him, for fear of going to jail for defending himself?

I wonder what you would have done in the same circumstances?

[Xaccers]

Funnily enough, in Milton Keynes, if you're a male victim of domestic violence and defend yourself you get a criminal record.
Apparently the police here haven't the brain power between them to work out that men can be victims of violent women...

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

No xaccers no one is saying anything like that but how about a system that keeps it's gob shut till a proper investigation has been done. How about a system that doesn't haul an obvious victim off to a police station straight away. End of the day this guy had been working allday was about to go home when a piece of **** wanted his earnings for nothing.

How about a system where the press (and not just the tabloids) don't automatically print what currently amounts to half a story?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Nugget

How about a system where the press (and not just the tabloids) don't automatically print what currently amounts to half a story?

Yup, that sounds good to me, anonymity until found guilty.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Yup, that sounds good to me, anonymity until found guilty.

Absolutely. Let's face it, it's not that long ago that a trial was abandoned because the Mirror printed an article from (I believe) the father of the victim, that would have blatantly prejudiced the jury - I'm afraid I can't remember the exact details.

If the vast majority of newspapers in this country didn't constantly strive to find the most sensational angle to any story, we might actually let the police and courts get on with their jobs...

I fully agree and support a system of non reporting until the facts can be told.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I fully agree and support a system of non reporting until the facts can be told.

Might even help those men accused of rape by women who are later found to be lying and the police release the names of the accused to the press.

[shawty]

Originally Posted by Nidge

Jesus some people, he'd worked a 13 hour shift in his shop only for some **** bag to try and take his takings for the day aided by a knife, he got what was coming to him IMO.

I never said he didnt get what was coming to him. But then again, we cant go around killing people because they do bad things. It was just a thought.

---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Sirius

I said one would come along to support the robber.

So what do you want to happen to the VICTIM.

Long jail sentence

Made to walk with a sign that Say's "HEY look i defended myself, I am the bad boy".

Get real. This man was attacked with a knife and rightly defended himself against someone who by having a knife and using it was attempting to murder the victim. The robber got in my opinion a taste of his own medicine.

But hey there is always those that will support the Criminal and not the victim. Are you a Human Rights Lawyer by any chance ?

How am I supporting the robber? I said he killed someone, thats just as wrong as anything else. Anyway, as we dont know the facts yet, anyhting could have happened and that is why the Police have to be suspicious of murder.

---------- Post added at 18:00 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

No xaccers no one is saying anything like that but how about a system that keeps it's gob shut till a proper investigation has been done. How about a system that doesn't haul an obvious victim off to a police station straight away. End of the day this guy had been working allday was about to go home when a piece of **** wanted his earnings for nothing.

Shawty if you really think that people that kill even if it is in self defence should be punished well what can i say it's ludicrous because if we go by what you say we basically make a criminals charter and they will make use of it.

Someone comes at me with a knife i define reasonable force as anything it takes to save my life if that means killing my attacker fair enough. You attack someone with a knife you take your chances and always run the risk of dying thats how it is i believe there is going to be a government campaign highlighting how dangerous knives can be because they can injure or kill you if you carry them looks like they have their latest poster child for the campaign.

One stab wound killed the **** the VICTIM had multiple injuries on multiple parts of his body do the math as they say.

You cant just believe the victim and clear him of anything before there has a been a investigation. What a world that would be. At the end of the day, killing someone is a crime to, thats all I was saying.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

Originally Posted by XFS03

So you think that no matter what the circumstances are, anyone who kills someone else for whatever reason should be punished?

IMO you should only be punished if you intentionally do something wrong. What was this shopkeeper supposed to do in his situation? Allow the robber to kill him, for fear of going to jail for defending himself?

I wonder what you would have done in the same circumstances?

All I was trying to say, was killing someone is a crime. Im in no way defending the robber.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Might even help those men accused of rape by women who are later found to be lying and the police release the names of the accused to the press.

Exactly.
For most people there is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty, look at this case for instance, for all we know it was a misunderstanding and the shop keep actually had the knife and stabbed the so called attacker believing he was about to be attacked, then concocted a "I was attacked" story.
I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm trying to point out that it's one of the posibilities that could have happened.
Just like the women who after sleeping with someone on a one night stand or fling while drunk, feel guilty and cry rape. If it had been reported in the same way as this case, you'd be under the impression that a bloke had raped a drunk defenceless girl, and many people would be calling for him to be strung up.

[superbiatch]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3449075.ece

Seems the CPS have made their decision.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by superbiatch

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3449075.ece

Seems the CPS have made their decision.

Shock horror! Due process followed and sensible outcome reached!