Going Over There, Using Their Health Service

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Hope you liked my centre-page spread (oooo-er)....

Nice

You got a larger version of that

[jkat]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Nope you got it wrong i don't read any of those comics and never have . Next please

Been a long time reader of AD2000 and Tree Hugger spotting for beginners weekly if that helps

u hug trees besides play childrens games??

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by jkat

i'm sorry to hear about your distant relatives illness but i have to say your statement implies that u wish others to have the same problems that your family have experienced!

a very cruel decision by immigration again, backed up by express/mail/sun readers and their ilk!

I dont know how you arrived at that conclusion?

I said 'We should not offer charity to others until our own are looked after, I have a relative (not close) in her early 30's who is now wheelchair bound. The NHS will not operate until she is at least 60 years old, because the remedial work only lasts about 10 years'

I think I am very clear in saying we should look after UK residents before looking after others. I have not said I think other people deserve to suffer the same, just that UK residents should be dealt with first before charity cases.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Escapee

I said 'We should not offer charity to others until our own are looked after, I have a relative (not close) in her early 30's who is now wheelchair bound. The NHS will not operate until she is at least 60 years old, because the remedial work only lasts about 10 years'

Have you any proof that foreigners in the same situation as your relative would be offered the treatment while she won't be?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Have you any proof that foreigners in the same situation as your relative would be offered the treatment while she won't be?

I was not suggesting that a foreign visitor welcome or not would be offered the treatment they are not offering her. I only brought the subject up because personaly it is a real life example.

The whole point though is that perhaps further resources would be available if they were not being used on foreign visitors. The foreign visitors who come here for major operations may be low in number, and now and again we will see a touching story in the news (perhaps on the highly regarded BBC !) where somone has been brought to this country for a life saving operation on the NHS. These cases are not common place but they are costing the UK taxpayer.

The NHS is not a charity, it was set up to provide a level of healthcare for people living in the UK, further advances in medical technology has meant a better level of care but also more financial burden on the syste. The top priority of the health service should be to provide a sufficient level of care for UK residents.

I am well aware of the drains put on the NHS as my girlfriend works on a long term care ward, they deal with mainly cancer patients, those who need care before able to return home, those who the council need to find accomodation for, and those who will not leave because it's a warm bed and a hot meal on offer.

They do have a fairly high number of foreign people on her ward, and she does get very annoyed with some nationalities of people who expect the NHS service to provide this that and the other. earlier this year she had one patient who had signed her house over to her son and would not leave, she expected the hospital to provide her with a house. the hospital dealt with social services and the local authority toget her a house, then she complained that the house they offered was not new, it did not have the furniture she wanted etc etc etc.

The hospital bent over backwards wasting lots of resources just to get her out of a bed needed by people who were much more in need. The son refused to learn how to give his mother her daily injections because he expected everything to be provided on a plate. The women was discharged from the hospital and moved into the accomodation provided, and there is now a court case because she is not happy with the level of care provided.

It should of been a simple matter in this case of delivering the woman to her own house that she had conveniently signed over to her son!

This is just one example, yes one of the more extreme that I hear of on a regular basis. The most annoying thing about these people who want something for nothing is the British tax payer is footing the bill.

The NHS is not a charity.

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by BBKing

This does, of course, all happen in reverse as well, since we can all get treatment free abroad.

Are you serious with this statement? Have you ever been abroad? Ok, if you get an NHS card you might get some free treatment in countries we have agreements with, but elsewhere I can assure you they will be looking for cash or your travel insurance details. Try walking into a hospital in the US and getting free long term treatment for cancer on a temporary visa. Try walking out of any number of foreign countries hospitals without paying the bill and see how far you get. A workmate of mine's wife fell ill on holiday in Greece earlier this year and had to pay for her treatment and claim it back off his travel insurance. My girlfriend had to go to hospital on holiday in Thailand. We had to pay before she left the hospital. The payment point was right in the reception area and I daresay I probably paid a little more than a local Thai would have paid.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Escapee

I was not suggesting that a foreign visitor welcome or not would be offered the treatment they are not offering her. I only brought the subject up because personaly it is a real life example.

The whole point though is that perhaps further resources would be available if they were not being used on foreign visitors. The foreign visitors who come here for major operations may be low in number, and now and again we will see a touching story in the news (perhaps on the highly regarded BBC !) where somone has been brought to this country for a life saving operation on the NHS. These cases are not common place but they are costing the UK taxpayer.

The NHS is not a charity, it was set up to provide a level of healthcare for people living in the UK, further advances in medical technology has meant a better level of care but also more financial burden on the syste. The top priority of the health service should be to provide a sufficient level of care for UK residents.

I am well aware of the drains put on the NHS as my girlfriend works on a long term care ward, they deal with mainly cancer patients, those who need care before able to return home, those who the council need to find accomodation for, and those who will not leave because it's a warm bed and a hot meal on offer.

They do have a fairly high number of foreign people on her ward, and she does get very annoyed with some nationalities of people who expect the NHS service to provide this that and the other. earlier this year she had one patient who had signed her house over to her son and would not leave, she expected the hospital to provide her with a house. the hospital dealt with social services and the local authority toget her a house, then she complained that the house they offered was not new, it did not have the furniture she wanted etc etc etc.

The hospital bent over backwards wasting lots of resources just to get her out of a bed needed by people who were much more in need. The son refused to learn how to give his mother her daily injections because he expected everything to be provided on a plate. The women was discharged from the hospital and moved into the accomodation provided, and there is now a court case because she is not happy with the level of care provided.

It should of been a simple matter in this case of delivering the woman to her own house that she had conveniently signed over to her son!

This is just one example, yes one of the more extreme that I hear of on a regular basis. The most annoying thing about these people who want something for nothing is the British tax payer is footing the bill.

The NHS is not a charity.

If that's really the case, then your gf is being negligent in her duties to ensure that the NHS act is being properly implimented.
As I've said before, if my gf needed hospital treatment, we'd be screwed.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If that's really the case, then your gf is being negligent in her duties to ensure that the NHS act is being properly implimented.
As I've said before, if my gf needed hospital treatment, we'd be screwed.

She cant be assused of being negligent, the real problem is the scared management who are terrified of losing a court case. As this country is turning more and more like America the management lack a spine. Any reasonable person would not expect the hospital to provide a house to them when they have just conveniently given their own away to a family member, why the hospital would bother to get involved is a farce. In this instance I believe she should of been removed from the bed, discharged, placed in a waiting room and her son contacted to collect her.

Some people unfortunately take the pi** out of the system, she constantly tells me stories of the attitudes of families who make extreme demands and expect the NHS to provide for their every whim.

On the subject of your gf getting ill over here it you may find the following interesting.

One of the filipino friends of my gf came here also to work as a nurse, unfortunately after about 12 months into her contract (I think it was poss a 3yr contract but dont quote me) she fell ill and was unable to work. Under the terms of her visa covering her to work for that particular health trust, she could not receive any medical treatment and had to return home. During this period of sickness she had spent all her money and there was no chance of getting her visa renewed when it run out, it meant that her collegues had to club together to pay for her flight back home.

I am just relaying that story because even working for a NHS trust doesn't guarantee health treatment, even if they are paying tax and NI.

[Xaccers]

That's the sick situation immigrants are forced into, if they can't afford health treatment, and we're talking mostly in thousands of pounds not a few hundred, health care as you know is expensive, then you don't get it, even if it would put your life at risk, no matter how much tax and NI you've given.
"No recourse to public funds" on your visa means you're stuffed.
No JSA if you find yourself out of work, no hospital care even if you're dying (especially if you're dying as they're not likely to get you to pay for it!), yet you still have to contribute.

A friend of mine sold his house when he got divorced and used his share to buy his parents' house so that he could help look after his mum who suffers from bad alzheimer's.
When it was decided she was to be put into care, they investigated the sale of the property thoroughly to ensure that it wasn't just signed over to get out of paying for the care (several thousand a month).
Thankfully they saw that the sale was genuine and so he only has to make affordable contributions to her care, but if they had decided the sale was an attempt to get out of paying they would have sent him the bill and taken him to court if he didn't pay, which would have resulted in reposessing the house.

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

That's the sick situation immigrants are forced into, if they can't afford health treatment, and we're talking mostly in thousands of pounds not a few hundred, health care as you know is expensive, then you don't get it, even if it would put your life at risk, no matter how much tax and NI you've given.
"No recourse to public funds" on your visa means you're stuffed.
No JSA if you find yourself out of work, no hospital care even if you're dying (especially if you're dying as they're not likely to get you to pay for it!), yet you still have to contribute.

Not 100% accurate. You can get healthcare even if you have 'no recourse to public funds' as a condition of your visa:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukr...s/publicfunds/

If you have a residence permit that allows you to live in the United Kingdom, it may include the condition that you have no recourse to public funds. If so, it means you will not be able to claim most benefits, tax credits or housing assistance that are paid by the state.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukr...es/healthcare/

If you are a visitor to the United Kingdom or have temporary permission to live here (we call this limited leave to remain), you may be able to register with a GP in your area and receive free treatment. The GP can decide whether or not to register you. You may not be able to receive the full range of hospital treatment, because you must be a permanent resident or have lived here for a year to qualify for it. This applies even if you are a British citizen or have lived or worked here in the past.

Some health services are free of charge to everyone. These are:

treatment given in an accident and emergency (A&E) department or in an NHS walk-in centre that provides services similar to those of an A&E department;
treatment for certain infectious diseases (but for HIV/AIDS only the first diagnosis and counselling that follows it are free);
compulsory psychiatric treatment; and
family planning services.

[Xaccers]

GP time is not health care. That's all you get free from the GP, their diagnosis skills.
If they refer you to a hospital for actual treatment such as an operation, expect to get a hefty bill, or refusal if you are unable to pay, even if you require the operation to live.

My dad's in hospital with a broken shoulder after a motorbike accident, if he wasn't British, the patch up in A&E would be covered, but the physio, or the injections and pills to treat the blood clots on his lungs, and the stay in hospital would not be.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

She pointed this out to the nurse, and asked for the correct paperwork so the NHS could charge her insurance. The nurse refused, saying it was free. My aunt explained how she didn't live in the country, and the nurse still refused.

The NHS is not a system geared to billing, treat first, consider cost and recovery later.
Checkin at a US hospital and along with your name address etc you need your SSN (NI Number) and insurance details (or details that there are none). In an A&E situation they are still required to treat and stabilise you then bill you even if you have no means to pay.
The NHS captures information to treat you and then if you are honest enough they will capture details to bill you, even then I have heard stories of them not bothering to do the invoicing as the cost of producing the invoice and recovering the funds vs the cost of the procedure (for lower cost procedures, say an A&E visit for with antibiotics) is uneconomic.

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If that's really the case, then your gf is being negligent in her duties to ensure that the NHS act is being properly implimented.
As I've said before, if my gf needed hospital treatment, we'd be screwed.

Why so, unless she is here illegally it was my understanding that she is entitled to NHS treatment.

---------- Post added at 10:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Xaccers

"No recourse to public funds" on your visa means you're stuffed.

Really! I guess we should ask for the forms so they can bill us for when our son was born in the UK. Whoops.

I'll take Charlies - once you have lived here for a year approach. Is backed up with a pretty definative web link also.

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Escapee

She cant be assused of being negligent, the real problem is the scared management who are terrified of losing a court case. As this country is turning more and more like America the management lack a spine. Any reasonable person would not expect the hospital to provide a house to them when they have just conveniently given their own away to a family member, why the hospital would bother to get involved is a farce. In this instance I believe she should of been removed from the bed, discharged, placed in a waiting room and her son contacted to collect her.

Some people unfortunately take the pi** out of the system, she constantly tells me stories of the attitudes of families who make extreme demands and expect the NHS to provide for their every whim.

Turning more like America is not really true. There are a lot more frivolous or ambulance chaser type cases in the US, however there are a lot more defence lawyers who manage these cases, settle those that need to be and will take to trial those that are trying it on, inflating medical bills or the nature of their injurys etc.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Why so, unless she is here illegally it was my understanding that she is entitled to NHS treatment.

Nope, only certain categories of immigrants are entitled to NHS treatment for free. If she was illegal and in custody, then she'd get NHS treatment as there would be a duty of care from the authorities as custodians.

Really! I guess we should ask for the forms so they can bill us for when our son was born in the UK. Whoops.

Yes you should you naughty naughty boy!
Assuming his mother's immigration status was such that she was liable for costs that is.
My personal view is if you're working here and contributing to the state, then the state should have a duty of care to you.
IE you pay tax and NI, then you should get access to what those contributions are for such as JSA and healthcare.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Nope, only certain categories of immigrants are entitled to NHS treatment for free. If she was illegal and in custody, then she'd get NHS treatment as there would be a duty of care from the authorities as custodians.

Yes you should you naughty naughty boy!
Assuming his mother's immigration status was such that she was liable for costs that is.
My personal view is if you're working here and contributing to the state, then the state should have a duty of care to you.
IE you pay tax and NI, then you should get access to what those contributions are for such as JSA and healthcare.

Seems from Charlies link that once you are here for a year Healthcare is covered. The no recourse to public funds focusses on cash based payments. I'm not sure what happened to the recourse to public funds stamp when she went from a red one year visa to a green permanent leave to remain visa. I think at that point it goes away.

[Xaccers]

Oh to be able to go to ILR in just one year.
Faulty has to find £400 next month to extend her ancestry visa by 1 year thanks to this governmnet being money grabbing *******s and extending the time requirements before getting ILR then making it retroactive*, and then another bucket of money next year for ILR, and more the year later for British Citizenship.


Think of the poor people who were 1 day away from getting ILR only to be told "sorry chaps, Gordon Brown wants another £400 from you"