Virgin Media announces 50mb lines from next year.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by sollp

At the moment the VOD and digital muxes are sent on differing frequencies to the modem D/S. So the D/S for the cable modems wouldn't be affected by this. When the analogue frequencies are removed there will be bags of space to do even more with, and also there will better ways of using the bandwidth to send the Digital/HD content to the customers STB like Switched Digital Video,(SDV) and many others.

E.G http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_vide

One problem, how do you remove the analogue signal and still provide tv when you havent yet to provide a digital signal such as in leics and southampton.

[sollp]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

One problem, how do you remove the analogue signal and still provide tv when you havent yet to provide a digital signal such as in leics and southampton.

Yes i know you've got this problem, to be honest there are a few situations like yours that i know of and maybe a few more,(like the BT MATV network VM are currently using) What they have planned for these areas i can only assume that there will be a priority list of things to upgrade when it happens?

I know the analogue switch off will not happen over night all over the country, it will be certain areas at a time.

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

You also said this on the 27th of Nov

"There is no cap/STM on 50mbit, nor will there be."

Not having a go,but if that's changed in a matter of weeks then it's also possible that it may change yet again.

Yea, because that's what i, staff, and other people were *promised* by top people running the trials.

Then a few days ago they turned round and said, oh yea btw, we're trialing STM on 50mbit now.

VM aint a trustworthy company, and im not payin £47/month for a "traffic managed"" 50mbit, not a chance in hell, and i cant see many other people doing the same.

[popper]

Originally Posted by sollp

I've said this about alot of topics on the forum and the way they progress.

---------- Post added at 14:20 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------
At the moment the VOD and digital muxes are sent on differing frequencies to the modem D/S. So the D/S for the cable modems wouldn't be affected by this.

When the analogue frequencies are removed there will be bags of space to do even more with, and also there will better ways of using the bandwidth to send the Digital/HD content to the customers STB like Switched Digital Video,(SDV) and many others.

E.G http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_vide

in relation to this and the fact its a rumour and we dont know as yet if this suposed rumoured broadband Tv trial is going to even be a true IPtv, or if its trialing/going to be trialed as a IP-unicast, IP-Multicast or IP-Broadcast delivery system.

i was reviewing some of the old threads and i think bringing some of that known info from spider-plant into the thread might spark some interesting tech understanding and chat (50Mbit will be great/stink threads get old real quick).

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...bandwidth.html
"
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Web-Junkie
So what is the speed of the TV feed?

spider-plant:About 1.2Gbps. (31 multiplexes at 38Mbps each) But that is shared between everyone."

"
Quote:
Originally Posted by popper
... i didnt realise it was that low, so whats the max usable throughput on the current kit, 2.5Gbs/s ? ...

spider-plant:Turn off analogue and switch to QAM256 throughout, and you get around 4Gbps. If that's still not enough, switch to broadcast on demand."

[sollp]

Originally Posted by popper

in relation to this and the fact its a rumour and we dont know as yet if this suposed rumoured broadband Tv trial is going to even be a true IPtv, or if its trialing/going to be trialed as a IP-unicast, IP-Multicast or IP-Broadcast delivery system.

i was reviewing some of the old threads and i think bringing some of that known info from spider-plant into the thread might spark some interesting tech understanding and chat (50Mbit will be great/stink threads get old real quick).

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...bandwidth.html
"
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Web-Junkie
So what is the speed of the TV feed?

About 1.2Gbps. (31 multiplexes at 38Mbps each) But that is shared between everyone."

"
Quote:
Originally Posted by popper
... i didnt realise it was that low, so whats the max usable throughput on the current kit, 2.5Gbs/s ? ...

Turn off analogue and switch to QAM256 throughout, and you get around 4Gbps. If that's still not enough, switch to broadcast on demand."

Erm, rumours or not, i was merely referring to a possible solution by using SDV, which i think is being used alot in America, so as we normally follow suit, give it another couple of years and we most likely be using the same technology,(maybe). As for rumoured Broadband TV trial, i know not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_digital_video

[popper]

the arris flash presentation gives an overview of what can be done to increase the DOCSIS 1.0(pre-20B-)3.0 bandwidth per subscriber
http://www.bloobble.com/broadband-pr...epsession=true

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:02 ----------

Originally Posted by sollp

Erm, rumours or not, i was merely referring to a possible solution by using SDV, which i think is being used alot in America, so as we normally follow suit, give it another couple of years and we most likely be using the same technology,(maybe). As for rumoured Broadband TV trial, i know not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_digital_video

OHH dont get me wrong sollp , i agree with what you say, there are options available, and wouldnt you know it i posted about one elswere but cant find the reference now to refresh peoples minds.

im not sure about using SDV though as theres better options out there but then again we are talking VM and their tendancy to use their buddys in the US as the main point of contract signing (the V+ and liberate middleware being the prime contracts rather than the far more advanced options we need right now) to get cheap,end of line kit off the US shelves and on the the UK markets.

[sollp]

Obviously alot of this is going to come down to how much they want to spend. As VM have already said that they will concentrate more on the Broadband side i take it they know and are planning what system/systems and technologies they will use to produce the end product for future BB and TV.

[popper]

CableLabs awarded the first qualification status certifications for DOCSIS 3.0 products.
http://www.convergedigest.com/DSL/la...?ID=23359&ctgy=
"
CableLabs Awards DOCSIS 3.0 Qualifications

CableLabs awarded the first qualification status certifications for DOCSIS 3.0 products.

Casa Systems received "silver" qualification while Arris and Cisco received "bronze" qualification for their cable modem termination systems (CMTS) headend gear.

The headends were tested under a tiered program that was created as a way to encourage CMTS makers to submit gear for testing earlier than they otherwise might.

CableLabs also offered suppliers numerous informal interoperability events where vendors work together in CableLabs’ facilities to test and evaluate their implementations of the specifications.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] DOCSIS 3.0 specifications enable downstream data rates of 160 Mbps or higher and upstream data rates of 120 Mbps or higher. To achieve these higher data rates DOCSIS 3.0 describes a methodology for channel bonding in both the upstream and downstream directions. A minimum of four channels, each with throughput of 40 Mbps, is specified.
...
"
it might take a while to see 125 DS channels though 5Gb/s download
(3.75Gb/s upload)

id settle for 24 DS channels though to tide you over 960Mbit/s
download and around 720Mbit/s upload before overheads


http://www.bloobble.com/broadband-pr...epsession=true
slide No 14

[sollp]

Problem is,(well one of many i see) is the Access network in alot of places will need up grading to be able to achieve more bandwidth in the upstream. Many areas only have the 5-40mhz to play with on the upstream and mainly all areas only use from 18-44mhz approx. So the network architecture can vary immensely depending on the legacy companies it originated from.

So again the potential is there buts its going to cost eventually, initially it won't be much of a problem but with more channel bonding for the upstream, it's going to be tight in that small space.

[mcmanic]

probably be questioned already but suppose new 50meg with new modems would be at customers cost for new modems, cannot see VM missing out on asking for upgrade fee on new modems (again) aka 10meg to 20meg

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by mcmanic

probably be questioned already but suppose new 50meg with new modems would be at customers cost for new modems, cannot see VM missing out on asking for upgrade fee on new modems (again) aka 10meg to 20meg

They didn't ask any money for the modems....if you fitted it yourself it was free,if you needed an engineer too fit it you paid for that...not the modem.

[phil699]

Is DOCSIS 3 going to give us good speeds with 50mb? e.g atleast 40mb...?

[Toto]

Originally Posted by phil699

Is DOCSIS 3 going to give us good speeds with 50mb? e.g atleast 40mb...?

That is the point, whilst the current EuroDOCSIS standard can deliver up to 55Mbps download, the new DOCSIS 3 has a much higher DL/UL so could easily handle 50Mbps.

VM will obviously need to upgrade their CMTS at each headend, and supply new modems for their customers.

[popper]

OC it depends on the CMTS and firmware installed in it at the other end, but im pritty sure the official spec for Docsis2.0 (the default freqs etc that Docsis (2.0B-)3.0 is using states that a single Eurodocsis channel uses a MAX of 50Mbit before overheads.

take a look at the ARRIS PDF for a chart
http://www.arrisi.com/product_catalo...Technology.pdf
that shows for QAM 64 on US docsis with 2 channels,so id assume the kit can do a max upto 60 Mbit per channel before overheads with a higher QAM (is that 256 max currently ?) and a future firmware if needed.

with the current minimum Docsis 3.0 spec of 4 DS bonded channels allowed, thats 160Mbit down and 120mbit up, 40Mbit download per channel and 30Mbit upload per channel.

its all in the No.s, so...
24 bonded channels give you 960Mbit/s download and 720Mbit/s upload.

and although (if ever)it might take a while to see 125 DS channels the currently highest spec for 3.0, thats 5Gb/s download and 3.75Gb/s upload

its strange they didnt just TOP spec for max 10Gigabit of bonded channels Download though?...

lets just hope the 3rd party network card venders get off their backsides and start producing 2/4/6/8 and/or 10gig NCs for the home users markets.

or at the very least, (actually it might be the far better option in the SHORT TERM) microsoft provide a free generic bonding interface driver ASAP, so we can bond our NCs together to get higher throughput to the likes of freeBSD/linux home made NAS servers (and even MS machines if they supply the bond driver), and later, multi gigabit hardware devices such as any bonded cable modem above the 24 channels (1 gigbit)it would take to fill that pipe

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...l#post34456487

---------- Post added at 12:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 ----------

BTW, increased security for DOCSIS 3.0 comes in with Silver certification.

some of the more vital specs per certificate:
Bronze mandate: Multicasting, IPv6, downstream channel Bonding.
Silver mandate: QOS multicasting, Enhanced security AES,Upstream channel Bonding.

FULL :with all the spec certifyed.

as for seeing at least 40Mbit on the initial 50Mbit/1.5 or 5Mbit (10/1 ration) perhaps, package once it becomes available, id assume it to supply 48.5Mbit real download on internal throughput and external routes to/from good servers, and the upload rate at 1.45/4.95Mbit servers permitting OC.

---------- Post added at 15:02 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

Originally Posted by sollp

Problem is,(well one of many i see) is the Access network in alot of places will need up grading to be able to achieve more bandwidth in the upstream. Many areas only have the 5-40mhz to play with on the upstream and mainly all areas only use from 18-44mhz approx. So the network architecture can vary immensely depending on the legacy companies it originated from.

So again the potential is there buts its going to cost eventually, initially it won't be much of a problem but with more channel bonding for the upstream, it's going to be tight in that small space.

what is the general consensus here with the VM techs etc for growing that space (as layed out in the general docsis3 upgrading/todays Best Practices Preperation advice 33) within the VM network?, is it currently layed out something like the
http://www.bloobble.com/broadband-pr...epsession=true
slide 25 and 26 of the ARRIS flash presentation?, and at what % of current filtering kit within the whole UK CABLE network can take the redeployment for freqs.

in effect it seems to use the redeployment of the analogue freqs to get max benefits, is there currently enough unused freqs for use in every area of the UK cable network to start deploying docsis3 in the baguley and other headends...

perhaps a simple laymans terms document can be produced to help understand the while thing and the way it interacts for readers...

[chamoan]

Anything that can give us a better service, and kick the ******* cloners off and freeing up more bandwidth and not clogging up the system as much is fine by me, will that get rid of the tv cloners aswell?...cos that would free up even more