how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING

[LenMackin]

Oh Please, this is so pointless! Sure i can download at 1.5mb as i did last week after I hit 300mb download... I think i would rather pay £12 or something for that speed rather than £25! Family of four here. We hit the limit very easily. I just cannot believe peoples reasoning in these groups.

[dontpannic]

OK the limits are quite low - granted, but I don't get this about reporting them to the ASA or OFCOM or the Police for mis-advertising a product when they haven't. They have advertised Unlimited Downloads at speeds of up to 2/4/20meg. They haven't said unlimited speed now have they??

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

OK the limits are quite low - granted, but I don't get this about reporting them to the ASA or OFCOM or the Police for mis-advertising a product when they haven't. They have advertised Unlimited Downloads at speeds of up to 2/4/20meg. They haven't said unlimited speed now have they??

This always happens. I've lost count of the amount of times someone has accused Both Virgin Media and NTL/Telewest of mis selling their products and then said they will report them to the ASA/Ofcom/whoever.

[ali2487]

wow 17 pages

[NitroNutter]

Haha. The next one will be an advert with the words "including a free cap for all new sign ups" and at the side of that will be a nice picture of a virgin media baseball cap carry the virgin media logo and the slogan "helping you shape your media".

[helmutcheese]

Originally Posted by dev

please show me where you pay for a 2/4/10(20)mb dedicated line off virgin?

when you buy that mondeo, you buy it all for you, you internet connection isnt only for you

Actually my connection is all for me, I do not pay for a Dedi but I did sign up years ago for unlimited use.

Your one of the users who does not have the sense to know why they are now shaping, the network is a joke, it has been bad for over 6months now for me and lots of others here, they cant supply a stable 10meg to all users nevermind 20meg because they have oversubsribed the UBR's in many areas.
I would rather they fixed the netowrk and keep us on 10meg.

If you are happy to be conned then your the mug not me.

[pedrohizzo]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

OK the limits are quite low - granted, but I don't get this about reporting them to the ASA or OFCOM or the Police for mis-advertising a product when they haven't. They have advertised Unlimited Downloads at speeds of up to 2/4/20meg. They haven't said unlimited speed now have they??

The problem with your argument is that every other ISP uses the "upto" term in advertising because they might not be able to provide it due to the nature of the service where as VM are using it as a way to rip you off.

[helmutcheese]

The UPTO has always been the case because they cannot say you will get 10meg or 20meg from every source esp outside there own network, if they did some n00bs would call up faults because they are getting 1meg under there full spec from ASIA to UK lol.
This is not the same as the current shaping where as before we did not have any penalty of speed or amount, if you phoned up last year on 10meg saying you had 5meg all the time it would have been classed as a fault, where as 9.5meg would not be.

[CrossyX]

I hate the throttling, i have had it for a long while now and i havent received the upgrade as yet. the whole basis of faster BB is to get content quicker but if its going to be throttled at key times its contradictory. They should state it on there posters, "Britians fastest Broadband for about an hour". What i will say is that even though i dont agree with throttling, its still better than anything else that is currently available. So everyone will have to suck it up. Its defies beleif that people think its acceptable for companys to do this when they advertise unlimited 20mb or whatever speed. I would rather have my 10mb connection (when it was not throttled) than 20mb and throttled after 3gb. 20mb unlimited should just meen that, if the company cant handle it dont offer it then people wont be so dissapointed.

[supercyber]

OK I LIKE TO CLEAR THIS THING WITH "UP TO"

lets just say that ur on the 4mb service, that means u should get 512KBytes PER second download.

but this is not the case, its nver the case, all depends the who u download from, etc etc, including the noise on the line.

thats is y that term is used. HOWEVER ITS NOT A JUSTIFICATION TO USE THAT "UP TO" TERM TO THROTTLE SPEED INTENTIONALLY.

SO ALL U PPL WHO KEEPS SAYING OH, THEY SAY "UP TO" PLZ GET UR FACTS STRIGHT.

---------- Post added at 22:12 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

ohh yea frogot to add this:

if VM have nothink to worry about, then y did thye call me back 3 times after i sent a compaline to ISPA.

its a funny think, coz 4 some reason they offer me £32.50 reducation on my service.

lol i keep telling them i dont care about the money, but i dont want limit on my BW.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:12 ----------

Originally Posted by dontpannic

OK the limits are quite low - granted, but I don't get this about reporting them to the ASA or OFCOM or the Police for mis-advertising a product when they haven't. They have advertised Unlimited Downloads at speeds of up to 2/4/20meg. They haven't said unlimited speed now have they??

no of course not unlimited speed, WHAT U talking about lol

the limit on speed are clear, 2mb, 4mb or 10mb?

so what the confusion there.

Originally Posted by m044bz00

I suggest you read your Highway code where it clearly states that 70 MPH and any other speed limt refers to a MAXIMUM and not a constant

Perhaps you can explain that one to the chap who was pulled over by a uniform for doing less than 30mph in a 30 area, he was cautioned.

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:29 ----------

Originally Posted by dontpannic

And have you seen Virgin's advertising? They advertise unlimited downloads - just because there is a speed limit doesn't stop you downloading data

Here we go again, how many times does it need explaining the word " unlimited " ?
You said " unlimited downloads " ok, lets take the last word first, " downloads " I gather that we all know what that word means?
Good, lets put that word to one side for a moment, the other word " unlimited " means " without restriction, or unrestricted " now take the second word " unrestricted " and add it to " downloads " and what do we get?
We all know in the non vm world atleast
Len, the person who called you was clearly a " blocker " they are paid a lot of money these people, I would want paying a lot to hide my shame behind the invisibility of a telephone.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Merlin99uk

I won't even mention the hundreds of iPod clip sites..... oh wait, I just did

Or even the size of the downloads from iTunes if you start downloading episodes of LOST etc onto your iTunes/appleTV.

---------- Post added at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Following on from this and other thread around network speeds (the Comcast trials DOCSIS3 etc). I now realise that the Cablevision network I use over here is shaped.
All I can say is what are you all getting upset about. From my desktop in the US I get a great connection 24/7, it might be a little slower from some sites in the evening, but I recently posted some speed tests at 7.30pm at night showing 13.7/1.7 for a 15/2 connection.
Shaping is necessary and if you think about the fact that many of us also shape our internal networks by putting using the QOS functions on our routers to say prioritise VOIP packets over IP packets.
Corporate networks also do this, it is a fact of life that some traffic is more important / time sensitive than others and should be managed accordingly. It is in every other aspect of life (priority mail / courier, vs 2nd class post), vehicles with blue lights vs the rest of us. Flying vs Driving.

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Or even the size of the downloads from iTunes if you start downloading episodes of LOST etc onto your iTunes/appleTV.

---------- Post added at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Following on from this and other thread around network speeds (the Comcast trials DOCSIS3 etc). I now realise that the Cablevision network I use over here is shaped.
All I can say is what are you all getting upset about. From my desktop in the US I get a great connection 24/7, it might be a little slower from some sites in the evening, but I recently posted some speed tests at 7.30pm at night showing 13.7/1.7 for a 15/2 connection.
Shaping is necessary and if you think about the fact that many of us also shape our internal networks by putting using the QOS functions on our routers to say prioritise VOIP packets over IP packets.
Corporate networks also do this, it is a fact of life that some traffic is more important / time sensitive than others and should be managed accordingly. It is in every other aspect of life (priority mail / courier, vs 2nd class post), vehicles with blue lights vs the rest of us. Flying vs Driving.

some very good comparisons regarding sharing across available capacity & peak demand, there, thanks

[pedrohizzo]

The problem i have with it is because they claimed the network is suffering from people downloading too much and part of their solution is to increase the highest package speed by 100% for a nominal fee of £2/4$ and then implement traffic shaping which (in my opinion) is affecting the lower tiers more.

I think it's basically a poor attempt to nudge everyone onto a higher package that they dont need. also the traffic shaping we have isn't merely prioritising certain types of traffic it is a solid 50% reduction in speed once you go over an extremely low, set amount of bandwidth between 4pm and 12am.

Surely the solution to congestion on the network isn't to offer higher speeds? or are they relying on people to upgrade out of frustration to something they previously didn't need?

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by pedrohizzo

The problem i have with it is because they claimed the network is suffering from people downloading too much and part of their solution is to increase the highest package speed by 100% for a nominal fee of £2/4$ and then implement traffic shaping which (in my opinion) is affecting the lower tiers more.

I think it's basically a poor attempt to nudge everyone onto a higher package that they dont need. also the traffic shaping we have isn't merely prioritising certain types of traffic it is a solid 50% reduction in speed once you go over an extremely low, set amount of bandwidth between 4pm and 12am.

Surely the solution to congestion on the network isn't to offer higher speeds? or are they relying on people to upgrade out of frustration to something they previously didn't need?

I couldn't agree more! and now it's coming to light that a lot of people are experiencing the throttling activating without going anywhere near the limit.