how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING

[welwynrose]

Originally Posted by Merlin99uk

Why not, I have a nice widescreen monitor, I watch my stuff on the pc, wife watches hers on tv in the living room.... no problem, just like VM customers having more than one box!

It worked well, until now....

I must be one of the lucky one's in that the OH & me have the same taste's in TV programs & only use our 2nd box for watching TV in bed

[deckmonkey]

It's all very well to say "yeah well shaping is the future so get used to it" but if you don't object at least to the rather back door way it's been introduced (and the fact that VM haven't even briefed their staff on it) then the next time they have a bright idea to wang more folks onto the same kit without investing in upgrades to cope with the extra traffic and/or higher speeds, like, ooh, I don't know, download limits, then they'll just go right ahead and do it. Why? Because they'll think "well no one objected last time we introduced restrictions".

I'm not saying they'll do it or that I'm totally against shaping, but it's the sneaky way it's been done and the unfairly low downloads thresholds that seem iniquitous to me. Plus I spent 2 hours on the phone last night trying to get a definitive explanation of what was going to happen but since theye didn't bother to brief their staff it took ages until I got hold of a helpful chap at their UK tech support who found out for me. That's just sloppy all round. Where's this supposedly legendary customer service we're all supposed to be getting?

At the very least, bring on a campaign to get VM to reconsider the limits and maybe apologise for not stating all this clearly in the first place. I can't just jump ship because my contract has a long time to run and I deliberately don't have a landline as I felt no need for one with having the cable BB.

[pacific202x]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

Are you a leech are you gonna regualrly download 3 gig in the 4 hours ? if so what you download? I am a leech and being put out a little on peak times isnt gonna change that I get plenty out of my connection if you catch my drift so im happy enough a chappie not to keep complaining

im going to download more than 3gb in those hours, what i download is none of your business, i went for an "unlimited" connection because of this....nobody buys a 20mbit unmetered connection just to "check their emails"...nonsense...how about they offer a service their network can handle (and is is possible, just see sewden/norway/denmark/japan/korea/usa) and stop compensating for their mediocre broadband technology with cutting the customers service...sure...have you all seen the advert with Uma Therman...as things go its not biggest thing...but its a thing worth knowing if you have unlimited broadband from virgin media you can download me once...twice..three times...infact you can download me...as many times as you like!! (apart from peek times when you can download me half as many times and you can off-peak while paying the same amount). makes them no better than ADSL providers...keep going like this then you will lose the battle with Sky.

[supercyber]

ok guys lets all get back to what i initially wated to do lol,

i am thinkink since Virgin part of ISPA (http://www.ispa.org.uk) we can make a formal compaline to them, well all should do this.

this will be step to let virgin know that they can just snek in a download limit without telling us and then still call thier service unlimited.

[Sirpingalot]

Well, technically they did tell us, they just didn't inform us. If you see what I mean.

All us cable forum guys know where we are, but those so commonly described as techniphobes don't. Simply because they think they're getting what they pay for. 'nd that's it. They pay 37 gbp for 10mb cable broadband, they get 10mb/s broadband. Or, that's how it should be. But, 'fraid not, it seems.

[popper]

Originally Posted by dev

please show me where you pay for a 2/4/10(20)mb dedicated line off virgin?

when you buy that mondeo, you buy it all for you, you internet connection isnt only for you

i think you will find that any court in the land will disagree with your assertion, and that in fact, the consumer contract does cover the person and is infact 'only for you' within the confines of the two partys contract.

rather than the usual 'if you dont like it leave' sheepish response in the hope that if these people leave VM will magicly resolve the under financed network and understaffed/over worked workforce.., why not just nip down your local county court and fill in a county court paper and every customer might be better off in the long term if things cant be resolved any other way.

---------- Post added at 04:04 ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 ----------

Originally Posted by welwynrose

is there anything actually worth watching on Joost

sure ,Alliance Atlantis Sci-Fi is good but theres lots to chose
http://www.joost.com/whatson/channels.html
and when it goes live its got a lot of studio names signed up to it as well.

dont go trying it at home/prime time though or you will get throttled for sure...

thats were the VM and the other UK ISP's throttling their users will come unstuck if their not careful, the end users might be sheepish with bringing court action.

but you can bet joost and their backers, not to mention the other commercial entitys comeing on line soon will be quite ready to test the throttling in UK court if its seen as effecting their mass market UK user base and profits later, perhaps people are already pointing this throttling out to joost etc and we might see the courts filling up or some workable compromise reached.

---------- Post added at 04:21 ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 ----------

Originally Posted by welwynrose

but how many people want to sit in front of their pc's watching a tv programme why not just use VM's VOD service

simple logic would state because what they want to see is NOT on VM VOD and perhaps never will be.

you dont have to sit infront of your PC OC, as theres TV out connections on most video cards today.

stuff a cable into your TV from it and press play at its most basic, all the way up to stand alone STB's that can take any content no matter were its from CD/DVD/DVB-T/DVB-S/LAN/HD/wireless NET etc and display your content on the TV its pluged into.

buy 2 see two seperate bits of content, thats were VM are SO limited and antiquated, they could have included that IP streaming capability in every single STB, but they didnt so go buy a 3rd party STB and be happy they even have harddrives included so you can store your content directly on them if you like and turn off your PC.

soon i imagine there will be joost and other apps included as standard inside these 3rd party STB's and away the IPTV goes for real.

you can be sure any campaign will be taken to new hights if its not resolved by then.

---------- Post added at 04:34 ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 ----------

Originally Posted by welwynrose

I must be one of the lucky one's in that the OH & me have the same taste's in TV programs & only use our 2nd box for watching TV in bed

yeah but thats just so old school with the cups of horlicks, the parrafin lamp on the dresser and potty under the bed, time to get with it and upto date

[welwynrose]

Originally Posted by popper

yeah but thats just so old school with the cups of horlicks, the parrafin lamp on the dresser and potty under the bed, time to get with it and upto date

well I'm not old (yet) I'm looked at the stuff that is available on the pc streaming wise and to be honest nothing appeals - I'd rather just download the stuff I do like pop it onto my external media drive and then punt it out on my 42" plasma tv - plus the fact I'd have to set up some sort of wireless network to get stuff on my TV direct from my pc or start running long wires round the house - no thanks - I'll stick to my nice simple way thank you very much

[Stuart]

Guys, seeing as you ignored my first warning, here is a second. The topic of the thread is starting a campaign to get VM to stop using shaping. Stay on that topic, or I may be forced to take further action.

[LenMackin]

I have now posted a complaint online to http://www.ispa.org.uk/ and last night I posted an online complaint to the advertising standards agency re the VM website that is 'economical with the truth' on the issue of traffic shaping. No matter what people say, effectively ALL users are having their service reduced by half for 8 hours per day - these are peak hours not midnight till 8am. This means that the majority of folks who get home after work, probably 6pm onwards and even those coming from school/college will be hit. By the time the speeds are reset its bedtime. Mine has been hit for the last two nights. Pathetic.

Lets put this another way, 40 hours each week we will suffer half speed. 160 hours each month (assuming that the weekends are not affected). A full year by my calculations equates to 1920 hours of reduced bandwidth. Thats 80 DAYS PER YEAR!! Think about it. Seems to me that VM are paying for their 20 mb speed increase by cutting back elsewhere. Bit like the chancellor with taxation - give some - take loads! If we all complain now we can get this sorted. Chances are that VM are testing the waters to see what we will accept. Accept nowt I say

[welwynrose]

Originally Posted by LenMackin

I have now posted a complaint online to http://www.ispa.org.uk/ and last night I posted an online complaint to the advertising standards agency re the VM website that is 'economical with the truth' on the issue of traffic shaping. No matter what people say, effectively ALL users are having their service reduced by half for 8 hours per day - these are peak hours not midnight till 8am. This means that the majority of folks who get home after work, probably 6pm onwards and even those coming from school/college will be hit. By the time the speeds are reset its bedtime. Mine has been hit for the last two nights. Pathetic.

Lets put this another way, 40 hours each week we will suffer half speed. 160 hours each month (assuming that the weekends are not affected). A full year by my calculations equates to 1920 hours of reduced bandwidth. Thats 80 DAYS PER YEAR!! Think about it. Seems to me that VM are paying for their 20 mb speed increase by cutting back elsewhere. Bit like the chancellor with taxation - give some - take loads! If we all complain now we can get this sorted. Chances are that VM are testing the waters to see what we will accept. Accept nowt I say

it's not all users, only the users that go over the limit - I for one am very unlikely to go over that limit & to be honest I don't think your complaints will get far

[hammered]

I've made a complaint to Watchdog as well... They'll probably love this one...

[Merlin99uk]

Here's a suggestion to get the campaign going, how about, if users who aren't happy make a complaint to the ASA, the Ads on TV are clearly stating at the end "Broadband Without Limits"

Traffic shaping is a limit, it's not cutting the amount we can download, but it is limiting the speed at which users can download, to 50% of what we pay for. Whether the limit is in effect for 4 hours a day or 24 doesn't matter, whether it's for the "top 5% of users" or not.

They can call it a "Traffic Management Policy" as much as they like, it is a limit.

I think it's time the big companies like VM should realise they can't throttle our usage to make space for a newer 20Mb line, and still expect to take the same money from us. I have been with Cabletel/NTL for years, but since they changed to Virgin, they've gone down the drain, and badly. People are leaving in droves, here's a link to a newspaper article from today:

http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...cle2527757.ece

Anyway, if any users would like to make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency, this is the link:


http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/

And, to the ones who will criticise, I'm by no means in the "Top 5%" I just think that in the world of the web with legal high size media files that are available, the limits imposed are ridiculous!

We should all have the right to the service we paid for and I think it is wrong for any company to impose new restrictions after the fact, just to introduce a new marketing ploy with faster speeds. After all, they aren't dropping prices are they ?

Originally Posted by Merlin99uk

Here's a suggestion to get the campaign going, how about, if users who aren't happy make a complaint to the ASA, the Ads on TV are clearly stating at the end "Broadband Without Limits"

Traffic shaping is a limit, it's not cutting the amount we can download, but it is limiting the speed at which users can download, to 50% of what we pay for. Whether the limit is in effect for 4 hours a day or 24 doesn't matter, whether it's for the "top 5% of users" or not.

They can call it a "Traffic Management Policy" as much as they like, it is a limit.

I think it's time the big companies like VM should realise they can't throttle our usage to make space for a newer 20Mb line, and still expect to take the same money from us. I have been with Cabletel/NTL for years, but since they changed to Virgin, they've gone down the drain, and badly. People are leaving in droves, here's a link to a newspaper article from today:

http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...cle2527757.ece

Anyway, if any users would like to make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency, this is the link:


http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/

And, to the ones who will criticise, I'm by no means in the "Top 5%" I just think that in the world of the web with legal high size media files that are available, the limits imposed are ridiculous!

We should all have the right to the service we paid for and I think it is wrong for any company to impose new restrictions after the fact, just to introduce a new marketing ploy with faster speeds. After all, they aren't dropping prices are they ?

That campaign might get them to change the ads but thats it I thought the campaign was to change the shaping policy not the wording of adverts

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by hammered

I've made a complaint to Watchdog as well... They'll probably love this one...

Watchdog is off air till the autumn

[pedrohizzo]

Given a choice would you prefer a traffic shaped network or not? at the moment it is extremely easy to break their limit, using my connection for approx. 30 mins gets my speed cut in half. Simply saying it's unlikely to affect me so i don't really care is a bit weak, what about when it does affect you? say all of a sudden you find a reason to use your "high speed" connection and find that you are only getting half what you are paying for when you want to use it.

in my opinion, the 2/4mb limits are too low, i think at the least all levels should have the 3gb limit although i'd prefer no shaping at all. it seems to be a means to an end in pushing out the 20mb service and anyone using a 20mb connection that doesn't download more than 3gb on atleast a semi regular basis could do just aswell with one of the lower tiers. if it wasn't for people like the OP we'd probably all still be on dial-up paying by the minute