Creationism vs Evolution, Equal?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by jem

<snip>

That is a top post.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Chris T

What I do not observe is 'beneficial mutation', whether in humans or anywhere else.

Well thats the main problem with "proving" evolution, beneficial mutations take so long to manifest in a species that no one person can observe them in a life time.

However, consider that current evidence suggest that humans originated in Africa and were black, and became white as they moved to cooler climates. Did God change the code or was the capacity already there and if so, why does a white family not give birth to black children if they move to Africa?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Cool, I'll use point 18 from the definition you've chosen.
Life begins when the defendant has been found guilty of a crime and sentanced to life inprisonment.



Do you believe the god you believe in is able to make mistakes?

I wish I could say no to that question but I cant ill ask him what he thinks when I see him

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

I wish I could say no to that question but I cant ill ask him what he thinks when I see him

You need to ask him what you believe?
Or you believe he can make mistakes?

Originally Posted by Chris T

I see vast adaptability within type. God's genetic programming system is a masterpiece, lots of contingencies built in and ready to come to the fore when environmental changes favour, say, someone with a built in sun-tan (African) over someone who's as pale as the driven snow (some of my Pictish neighbours up here in Scotland).

What I do not observe is 'beneficial mutation', whether in humans or anywhere else.

To be fair the science of Evolution has only been around for a couple of generations. Your unlikely to see any changes in that time or for many many generations its a very slow process. Also if you look at the way humans work we are unlikely to evolve much since its requires the death of weaker variations which is not something that we allow, medically, to happen.

Humans kind of screw up nature.

But you look at how viruses adapt to become resistant to medication. Its because the viruses change so much they allow variations at a much much much faster rate than animals. Then a variation will change enough that its not possible to treat it, which allows its spread and then it becomes the 'new' version of the virus.

For Humans, it would have been our brains and yoour hands that would have allowed us to continue since we are the fastest or the strongest animals but we can use tools, weapons and planning to hunt giving us a advantage.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

You need to ask him what you believe?
Or you believe he can make mistakes?

its down to perspective isnt it? Isnt the fact we are having this conversation and there isnt faith in him a mistake its just who made the mistake. Eve ? Adam? Satan? or God himself for giving man free will

Originally Posted by downquark1

Well thats the main problem with "proving" evolution, beneficial mutations take so long to manifest in a species that no one person can observe them in a life time.

However, consider that current evidence suggest that humans originated in Africa and were black, and became white as they moved to cooler climates. Did God change the code or was the capacity already there and if so, why does a white family not give birth to black children if they move to Africa?

Of course the rise in UV levels mean black people are suited better to the sun. Which is increasing, it could be said white people are a change that nature will eventually kill off (but we will likely treat it so i doubt it)

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I see vast adaptability within type. God's genetic programming system is a masterpiece, lots of contingencies built in and ready to come to the fore when environmental changes favour, say, someone with a built in sun-tan (African) over someone who's as pale as the driven snow (some of my Pictish neighbours up here in Scotland).

Aha! You'll not get me twice with that pretending to be Russ stuff
I'm awake now and you've got more hair!
Not to mention, you actually answer questions posed to him...

Originally Posted by Chris T not Russ

What I do not observe is 'beneficial mutation', whether in humans or anywhere else.

Most mutations are neutral, rarely they are harmful or beneficial.

Sickle cell anemia, a beneficial mutation which helps protect against malaria.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Of course the rise in UV levels mean black people are suited better to the sun. Which is increasing, it could be said white people are a change that nature will eventually kill off (but we will likely treat it so i doubt it)

White skin is the advantage in areas with less intense sun light. If sunlight was decreasing and there was no treatment availiable to black people, then they would decline.

My point is, if god wrote the human code then he is either modifying it or the code itself has the ability to adapt and is being mistaken for evolution.

Colbert interview about skin evolution

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

its down to perspective isnt it? Isnt the fact we are having this conversation and there isnt faith in him a mistake its just who made the mistake. Eve ? Adam? Satan? or God himself for giving man free will

Are you able to admit your god can make mistakes?
Yes or no, there is no wrong answer.

The honest answer is I do no know. I have a faith in his existance because I cant accept pure chance and I do hope there is a meaning in all this and not just a pointless waste of time where all we acheive in the end is nothing

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

The honest answer is I do no know. I have a faith in his existance because I cant accept pure chance and I do hope there is a meaning in all this and not just a pointless waste of time where all we acheive in the end is nothing

That's the thing I have asked myself many times, do we require religion because of our own sense of self importance, I think there has to be more to it than just random events, the journey of life has to lead somewhere other than just a hole in the ground

[Xaccers]

Why though? That's always puzzled me.
What's wrong with: you're born, you life, you die?

Why does that scare so many people?

Originally Posted by downquark1

White skin is the advantage in areas with less intense sun light. If sunlight was decreasing and there was no treatment availiable to black people, then they would decline.

My point is, if god wrote the human code then he is either modifying it or the code itself has the ability to adapt and is being mistaken for evolution.

Colbert interview about skin evolution

Yeah, I never actually thought about White people have an advantage in less intense sunlight? How is that the case?

Either way, its increasing world wide so according to evolution they are better suited to the enviroment. The white/black thing is a example of evolution since they are both for different enviroments if you take out the fact that we have technology to protect ourselfs. White people came about as they were well suited in a enviroment and in theory black people are better suited for now.

If the code has the ability to adapt then that would be evolution would it not?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

That's the thing I have asked myself many times, do we require religion because of our own sense of self importance, I think there has to be more to it than just random events, the journey of life has to lead somewhere other than just a hole in the ground

I can see where you are coming from, but that just seems such a self-centered (or human-centered) view of the world. Does this just apply to humans? What about animals, they don't have a soul, but act on 'instinct' do they? And if it does apply to animals, does that then not make it wrong to eat them? After all, who are we to cut their journey short?

---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah, I never actually thought about White people have an advantage in less intense sunlight? How is that the case?

Take a look at your pale fellow country man, and think Vitamin D deficiency.