NTL v Sky v Talktalk

Originally Posted by Juan

21 CN will make no difference to broadband speeds. 21CN means the exchange equipment is changed but the access network stays the same, i.e. copper - kind of like putting a Formula 1 engine in a Model T Ford.

That is what i am led to believe by the BT engineers

[banjo]

Well NTL is creaking at the seams what will happen when the mythical 20 and 50 meg are supplied

[Central]

Originally Posted by banjo

Well NTL is creaking at the seams what will happen when the mythical 20 and 50 meg are supplied

It will fall over

[Juan]

Regarding fibre to the home, see here:

http://www.telecommagazine.com/newsg...?HH_ID=AR_2576

Paul Reynolds the CEO of BT Wholesale is quoted as saying "I really don’t see a business case for widespread FTTH. It is not immediately apparent where the incremental revenue would come from that investment."

Looks like the unbundled operators will have to stump up the cash to put fibre into the local loop.

[poolking]

Originally Posted by SnoopZ

Excuse me?!? You should refrain from insulting forum members, go back to your pram.

Hmmm

[Vegeta]

Originally Posted by dcclanuk

Sky:
£15 for Sky TV
£5 for 8mb broadband
£5 for Sky talk- inclusive calls to UK landlines, and from 20th Dec to 10 international countries!
£11 for BT

Total: £36

Well its now only £26 for the above except the Sky Talk Freetime is only unlimited evening and weekends compared to Sky Talk Unlimited which you pay £5 for.

I'm currently paying £21 just for Sky TV so its a no brainer to pay an extra £5 per month for 8MB BB and Sky Talk Freetime.

http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/offers/bundles

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Be*

Like VDSL and 21cn

And obviously Cable can only beat DSL in the areas it is in. DSL will always be here as it covers a far more percentage of the UK then Cable will for a long time. Its like people saying "well you can pnly get LLU if your exchange has it". Well its the same for Cable you can only get it if a cable runs down your road

Err, AFAIK, BT aren't planning to replace the "Last Mile" as part of the 21CN programme.. So, ADSL will still have the same problems, just a more efficient backend connection from the exchange to the network (which, if I understand ADSL correctly, isn't the problem anyway).

[Tod]

Swings and roundabouts really. Sky don't get you a great mobile deal and PC security though do they?

[Central]

Originally Posted by Tod

Swings and roundabouts really. Sky don't get you a great mobile deal and PC security though do they?

You mean PC Guard. I would rather use no security then that crap. Just go and ask on the Telewest newsgroups how good it really is. I think you will be surprised. And I get a good mobile deal now.

[dcclanuk]

Originally Posted by Vegeta

Well its now only £26 for the above except the Sky Talk Freetime is only unlimited evening and weekends compared to Sky Talk Unlimited which you pay £5 for.

I'm currently paying £21 just for Sky TV so its a no brainer to pay an extra £5 per month for 8MB BB and Sky Talk Freetime.

http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/offers/bundles

But as a direct comparison inc TU24 calls, which includes international countries in SKY TALK and not in ntl TU24

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Err, AFAIK, BT aren't planning to replace the "Last Mile" as part of the 21CN programme.. So, ADSL will still have the same problems, just a more efficient backend connection from the exchange to the network (which, if I understand ADSL correctly, isn't the problem anyway).

That's correct BT are NOT replacing the speaker wire connection for the last mile. Its just not going to happen anytime in the next 10 years. That came from a Senior at a main BT exchange in Manchester City Centre. His words were

Everyone seems to think they are going to have some sort of super high speed connection out of this. Never going to happen.

21cn is all to do with switches and ip. Nothing at all to do with the customer end.

BTW

The DSL gang always shout VDSL well i suggest they read up on it and smell the coffee

VDSL PROJECTED CAPABILITIES
While VDSLhas not achieved the degree of definition of ADSL, it has advanced far enough to discuss realizable goals, beginning with data rate and range. Downstream rates derive from submultiples of the SONET and SDH canonical speed of 155.52 Mbps, namely 51.84 Mbps, 25.92 Mbps and 12.96 Mbps. Each rate has a corresponding target range:

12.96 - 13.8 Mbps 4500 ft 1500 meters

25.92 - 27.6 Mbps 3000 ft 1000 meters

51.84 - 55.2 Mbps 1000 ft 300 meters

As with other broadband technologies, end-user speeds will depend upon the distance of the feed or loop to the local telephone company, or telco, office. Shorter distances afford faster rates, while longer loops degrade signal and speed. One drawback of VDSL is that it requires a very short loop of about 4000 feet (1219 meters), or three-quarters of a mile

so i am willing to wait and go with 50 meg and beyond, Because it is not going to happen soon on a speaker wire

Note the drawing is in Feet not Meters

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Juan

Regarding fibre to the home, see here:

http://www.telecommagazine.com/newsg...?HH_ID=AR_2576

Paul Reynolds the CEO of BT Wholesale is quoted as saying "I really don’t see a business case for widespread FTTH. It is not immediately apparent where the incremental revenue would come from that investment."

Looks like the unbundled operators will have to stump up the cash to put fibre into the local loop.

Perhaps that might happen, but can they afford it?

But with regards to the BT quote and they can afford FTTH. I would point out to BT, can they afford not to make that investment when a competitor like ntl can offer 20mb, 50mb etc.

Look at the States, the Baby Bells said no to FTTH until cable started offering faster broadband speeds, then they had a rethink and places like New York are getting/have already been fully fibered up.

I always look to the US, because what they do there always crosses over here several years later. Although, as I said on another thread, perhaps technologies like WIMAX may make this FTTH debate irrelevant anyway. Even ntl has publically said that they see the operation of using underground cables as becoming a thing of the past in the future. And wireless becoming the defacto broadcast/broadband medium. I guess at that point Cable Forum will need to find a new name

---------- Post added at 04:23 ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 ----------

A rather relevant article re ntl vs Sky Broadband and other ISPs here:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/editor...s-the-Limit/p1

Originally Posted by Neptune

A rather relevant article re ntl vs Sky Broadband and other ISPs here:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/editor...s-the-Limit/p1

That has been stated by many on here but nearly always after they have left and have been installed via one of the AMAZING deals .


The person who wrote that article had obviously not had many dealing's with $ky's India customer service call centre's. I have spent a few hour's on to them trying to understand there 3- 4 four week wait for an engineer or there ability to change the brand of your receiver even when you paid extra for a better brand, Its just a case of keeping until like me your at the end of your contract and can cancel.




I am happy with what i have and noway am i changing to what is as far as broadband goes inferior technology in dinosaur land.

[Central]

Originally Posted by Bill C

That has been stated by many on here but nearly always after they have left and have been installed via one of the AMAZING deals .


The person who wrote that article had obviously not had many dealing's with $ky's India customer service call centre's. I have spent a few hour's on to them trying to understand there 3- 4 four week wait for an engineer or there ability to change the brand of your receiver even when you paid extra for a better brand, Its just a case of keeping until like me your at the end of your contract and can cancel.




I am happy with what i have and noway am i changing to what is as far as broadband goes inferior technology in dinosaur land.

You keep harping on about Skys indian centre but I read Telewest are now using a indian centre to.

You failed to mention that though

Originally Posted by Be*

You keep harping on about Skys indian centre but I read Telewest are now using a indian centre to.

You failed to mention that though

Not at all i have said in previous posts that both NTL and Telewest have offshore call centre's. I dont like them ether.

They too gave me a hard time. However i have never had to wait 3-4 weeks for a engineer to fix anything else. only $ky win that award.