Saddam Hussein Executed

Originally Posted by KN4995

I appreciate this thread has a particular flavour, so apologies for going elsewhere with it and for butting in. I just didn't want to start another thread.

Just been more than a bit disappointed that the administrator of another forum I have been using for the best part of a decade, has made a post with not just the link to the mobile phone footage of Saddam, but an embedded YouTube video - fortunately it's not an autostarter.
Why anyone would want to see that is beyond me?

The more it becomes an international controversy, and the more you hear people on TV and radio talking about it, the more likely folks are to say to themselves, "well, I suppose I should go and see what all the fuss is about then." However, that's a world apart from embedding the video into a forum post where plenty of people who didn't want to see it are likely to trip over it.

Even so, it all rather reminds me of the stories of nice little old grannies sitting by the gilloutine doing their knitting and watching while the toffs got their heads separated from their shoulders. Of course, if normal, civilised, nice people go to watch an execution, then it must be ok for everyone else to watch too, eh?

I'm not going to watch it myself. I'm one of those (apparently shrinking) number of people who thought the point in history when we abandoned public executions in this country was a civilised step forward.

The treatment of the vanquished Saddam Hussein should have been a chance for those who replaced him to show that thier way is better than his. On the current evidence, they're not doing very well at all. At least the antics that took place within Saddam's gruesome torture chambers and gallows didn't have a tendency to leak out via the WWW or the world media.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Chris T

The more it becomes an international controversy, and the more you hear people on TV and radio talking about it, the more likely folks are to say to themselves, "well, I suppose I should go and see what all the fuss is about then." However, that's a world apart from embedding the video into a forum post where plenty of people who didn't want to see it are likely to trip over it.

Even so, it all rather reminds me of the stories of nice little old grannies sitting by the gilloutine doing their knitting and watching while the toffs got their heads separated from their shoulders. Of course, if normal, civilised, nice people go to watch an execution, then it must be ok for everyone else to watch too, eh?

Totally agree, I have no interest in seeing it.
He's dead, I know that, why do I need to see it happen?
By posting it embedded in a forum, you remove people's right to choose not to see it.
One of the things I like about the forums I run or frequent, is that the admins are sensible enough to put warnings on anything which may offend, and not allow anything which may sicken.
Someone at work showed me a video without asking me first, of what I guess was a russian soldier being murdered in the most vile way, and I have to ask, why would any normal person want to watch that?

Originally Posted by Towny

I'm not going to watch it myself. I'm one of those (apparently shrinking) number of people who thought the point in history when we abandoned public executions in this country was a civilised step forward.

The treatment of the vanquished Saddam Hussein should have been a chance for those who replaced him to show that thier way is better than his. On the current evidence, they're not doing very well at all. At least the antics that took place within Saddam's gruesome torture chambers and gallows didn't have a tendency to leak out via the WWW or the world media.

I can see where you're coming from, but on the subject of being better or equal to his way, at least from what I've heard hanging (trap door method rather than strangulation) is quick and relatively painless, compared with his way of doing it (wood chipper, beaten to death, etc).

[KN4995]

I'm in complete agreement with you, Chris.
I've long since given up the way of posting about it at my regular haunts though (in fact, my regular haunts just bore the teeth off me now, hence my visit back here recently).
Because, whilst I just want to say that I believe capital punishment doesn't 'need bringing back' to 'mend today's society' I know in the most part I'll just suffer taunts of being a do-gooder, and how would I feel if my Mother/Father/Daughter etc had been murdered and the murderer caught etc. Which is probably a very good point, truth be told - I couldn't pretend not to want the very worst for them I'd expect. God willing, I'll never face that.
That's how I feel about the UK anyway - which, let's face it, is never going to reinstate CP.
In terms of capital punishment in Iraq - I dunno. I won't pretend to understand another county's culture, politics or rules. I'll only make myself look daft. I can only feel it's not right, but I don't feel justified in passing judgement. If that makes sense at all.

Watching someone be killed.. Wanting to deliberately watch someone be executed.
That's something I'll never get my head 'round though.
Each to their own of course - morbid curiosity and all that.
Not really something I'd expect to see on a forum, but hey.

[lauzjp]

I did watch it - someone emailed me a link to a youtube vid but it didn't say what it was... silly me. you really can't make out much though on the actual clips of his death.

much more disturbing was the (other) footage of the body afterward.

[Escapee]

I saw it, and it looked a fairly quick death.

There didn't appear to be any strangling, the trap door seemed very effective and there was a very long drop. ie. a long length of rope.

As I have said in the past, I couldn't watch an animal being treated badly but a viscious vile person is another matter. What do people really expect, how do they expect people to act from these sort of countries.

That in my mind is the biggest problem, people seem to judge these people by their own standards that we have in a civilised country. Saddams opponents are probably no better, if they were in power they would of probably done exactly the same things to their rivals.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I can see where you're coming from, but on the subject of being better or equal to his way, at least from what I've heard hanging (trap door method rather than strangulation) is quick and relatively painless, compared with his way of doing it (wood chipper, beaten to death, etc).

True, I have no doubt that in many ways he was accorded dignity that his lieutenants denied others. However, to allow the taunting, and to be sloppy enough not to prevent someone filming it ... that's really poor. I think it's going to come back and bite our collective national @rses (Brit, Yankee and Iraqi) in a very big and painful way.

Originally Posted by Escapee

Saddams opponents are probably no better, if they were in power they would of probably done exactly the same things to their rivals.

Thats a pretty sweeping statement. Saddam had a lot of opponents and I am sure most of them found the constant murders and debatible genosides as sickening and unthinkible. Let alone do them themselves. Its like saying Hitlers opponents would have commited the holocaust if they were in power.

Are you refering to anyone or am I missing something else

Originally Posted by Escapee

I saw it, and it looked a fairly quick death.

There didn't appear to be any strangling, the trap door seemed very effective and there was a very long drop. ie. a long length of rope.

As I have said in the past, I couldn't watch an animal being treated badly but a viscious vile person is another matter. What do people really expect, how do they expect people to act from these sort of countries.

That in my mind is the biggest problem, people seem to judge these people by their own standards that we have in a civilised country. Saddams opponents are probably no better, if they were in power they would of probably done exactly the same things to their rivals.

Mmmmmmmm.......

Fairly sweeping statements.

[The Jackal]

I live in a free and democratic country for I have the power of choice and change. ? . Maybe .

Democracy and freedom is the illusion that we need to give the masses to empower them for we govern and have true power to judge and execute power. Empowerment is a prerequisite to stabilize those without power.

A basic economy also gives them the false illusion of wealth for we are the ones who hold the key chips and markers.

FEAR ! Media has delivered the last mass entrapment weapon of mass destruction. Fear the masses even sacrifice a few what the heck they are expendable with respects to our multi billion dollar enterprise - theres nothing like a little fear to re-endorse ideals of Freedom, democracy and protection of our way of life(I mean enterprise).

Consider us all required entities on a production line without us cohesively working together our great free and democratic country would not be what it is today. You may strongly disagree that you do not have a hand to any of the atrocities / poverty dotted around the globe but unfortunately you do.

How then can a new born baby born to a first gen country be accountable to someones hunger in a third world country ? Think a little hard in terms of the economic impact of that childs birth and slightly stir with 'Chaos' unification theories.

Anyway to the point 'Sadam' - Another execution fresh off the production line it's not the first and will not be the last just don't get upset when said terrorist decides to bomb us personally.

The unfortunate thing is that the terrorist thinks that the action will grab the attention of those who govern without realizing that those injured and killed were somehow directly responsible for their own personal grievousness... Hold on a sec it's a "democracy" and an attack on our way of life. Let the masses stand strong and let's sacrifice a few more pawns - this is how our enterprise works.

" I just wish I was REALLY free from all this "

Originally Posted by CrC-3rr0r

I live in a free and democratic country for I have the power of choice and change. ? . Maybe .

Democracy and freedom is the illusion that we need to give the masses to empower them for we govern and have true power to judge and execute power. Empowerment is a prerequisite to stabilize those without power.

A basic economy also gives them the false illusion of wealth for we are the ones who hold the key chips and markers.

FEAR ! Media has delivered the last mass entrapment weapon of mass destruction. Fear the masses even sacrifice a few what the heck they are expendable with respects to our multi billion dollar enterprise - theres nothing like a little fear to re-endorse ideals of Freedom, democracy and protection of our way of life(I mean enterprise).

Consider us all required entities on a production line without us cohesively working together our great free and democratic country would not be what it is today. You may strongly disagree that you do not have a hand to any of the atrocities / poverty dotted around the globe but unfortunately you do.

How then can a new born baby born to a first gen country be accountable to someones hunger in a third world country ? Think a little hard in terms of the economic impact of that childs birth and slightly stir with 'Chaos' unification theories.

Anyway to the point 'Sadam' - Another execution fresh off the production line it's not the first and will not be the last just don't get upset when said terrorist decides to bomb us personally.

The unfortunate thing is that the terrorist thinks that the action will grab the attention of those who govern without realizing that those injured and killed were somehow directly responsible for their own personal grievousness... Hold on a sec it's a "democracy" and an attack on our way of life. Let the masses stand strong and let's sacrifice a few more pawns - this is how our enterprise works.

" I just wish I was REALLY free from all this "

Phew - and I thought I was cynical......

As Winston Churchill once said
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried."

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Phew - and I thought I was cynical......

As Winston Churchill once said
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried."

Yep and I still think we live in the matrix mate.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Mmmmmmmm.......

Fairly sweeping statements.

You just need to look at how these people act in these countries compared to countries in Europe etc.

These countries will never have peace, they will always be at war with each other, to expect the toppling of one dictator to solve the countries problems just will not happen. Within time Iraq will stand on its own two feet again, and further down the line when the west looses interest it will probably end up again being run by some other dictator killing his enemies.

Do we really think these countries value a life at the same level as a life is valued in the UK.

Before everyone has a go at me or twisting what I am pointing out, just look at the actions of the people in places like Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Israel, Lebanon etc. I was flamed before for saying these countries are third world countries, its nothing to do with the technology they have but everything to do with the attitude in these countries.

Life is not important but religion is.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Escapee

Before everyone has a go at me or twisting what I am pointing out, just look at the actions of the people in places like Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Israel, Lebanon etc. I was flamed before for saying these countries are third world countries, its nothing to do with the technology they have but everything to do with the attitude in these countries.

Life is not important but religion is.

I think a little bit of education would do you good mate... Maybe a trip to pakistan to meet the " savages " in person would do you good ? rofl.

Out of curiosity how long have we been " Civilized " for ? 200 ? 100 try maybe 50 years.

[Xaccers]

On Gandhi's first visit to London, someone asked him the question: 'Mr Gandhi, what do you think of civilization in England?' to which he replied 'I think that it would be something worth trying!'

[Gareth]

Here's an interesting article from the Grauniad about the whole Saddam GooTube affair...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1981081,00.html

Was Saddam's death dignified?

On the surface, of course not. An ageing man with a grey beard stands, looking bemused, beneath a makeshift gibbet while his enemies taunt him. As he is saying a final prayer, the trapdoor is suddenly released and he plunges to his death, a brief expression of surprise registering on his face as the floor gives way.
...
Saddam's killers have achieved the impossible: they have made us feel sympathy for him, for his grace under pressure. There may not have been dignity in the dying, but there was courage. A five-star death.

Well said, imo