Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

Good morning all,

would just like to give a breif update on my ongoing saga with the halifax.

I was going through my online banking a few days ago and realised i'd made a bit of a mistake in my orginal letter, i put in a complaint for just over £200 worth of bank charges, but actually the amount was just over £800.

anyway it was late so i left it, so i could deal with it in the new year as i really didnt want to be onto the bank and waste my holidays.

So this morning i get a letter from the nice but ever so slightly patronising man from customer relations. From the beginning it doesnt look good, explaining how they inccur charges because of me etc etc and how its my responsibility and so on.

Then to my surprise at the bottom of the letter in the very last paragraph it says as a gesture of good will i would like to offer you a refund of £840. as im sure you can imagine as soon as i regained conciousness i was over the moon!

Im even tempted to drive to leeds and hand deliver the acceptance form.

As a side not i just realised as i was typing this that I have already had one of the charges removed before as I wasn't happy for being charged £20 for going overdrawn my pennies for a few hours, so they have refunded that charge to me twice now!

Finally would just like to thank everyone that has helped in this saga, I would have definatley given up long ago otherwise.
And for everyone that is thinking its not worth the hassle like i did, it cost me the time to write two letters and asking some advice on here, i think its worth it.

Well done
Although the banks will not admit it, this is the reason behind them increasing their interest charges in their credit cards, there are more and more claims going in, the banks ( if they went to court ) would have to prove it was a reasonable charge.
There is a guy in this area claiming against three banks/building societies, looks like santa will be calling

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------

Originally Posted by SMHarman

The fee is not illegal per-say, but if all they have done in the first instance is print some extra text on your next month bill reminding you that your account is 30 days overdue then how much has this cost. It has not cost more paper, it has not cost more postage, all it has cost is the programming development time to add and thest that if / then loop to the statement rendering application.

If they are sending out additional reminder letters then there are directly calculable production costs, of paper envelopes, toner postage, but this is probably printed on surplus statement rendering capacity so is there a cost of buying more printing and distribution capabilitlity that they can allocate as a fixed cost - probably not, but there are the staff and cost per unit maintainance.

Then there is the team of bodies that call up etc, that probably costs more money and can directly be attributed to late payers, but they do not kick in on day one, probably nearer day 60.

I would see the 30 day late fee dropping considerably, along with the interest rate on the card escalation (common in the US) as you are now considered a higher risk. So they will claw back the loss of the 'penalty fee' by increasing your interest charge (and you can bet that increase will be more).

I can also see that as the account becomes more delinquent, the fees will increase as the bank can justify that now the letters and the call center is calling the account holder.

My

Talking about " clawing back the penalty fee " I had a nice letter a few months ago letting me know, they were the words used, that they ( virgin ) were increasing my interest rate to 24% I recollect, but again their words, you dont need to do anything else, I thought for a moment flipping cheek, never a late payment, no overspends.
So I called them to complain, csa goes off the phone for a moment, " ok on this occasion we can drop that to 19.5 % "
Forget it I said abruptly, give me the contact details for complaints, again the csa begs my pardon a moment, comes back with " ok, your interest rate will stay as it is, and you will receive conformation of this in the post "
I am all for people getting money back they're owed but it will be clawed back as shown here by virgin.

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I'm sorry but I genuinely cannot fathom any logic from what you are asking. You need to revisit the OFT statement of April this year (see the quote / excerpt below). John Fingleton put it on the line to the banks last night when he advised them, and their mealy mouthed Trade Association spokeswoman, "We are prepared to litigate on this matter".



I'm sorry but you are mistaken.

Penalty charges in consumer contracts are illegal - full stop. Liquidated losses (or pre-estimates of the costs involved in addressing a breach of contract) such as those to which you refer are legal as long as they only represent the actual costs incurred. There is a very distinct difference.

Given that not one bank in the UK is prepared to either have their cost structure analyzed or justified in a court of law then it is entirely safe to conclude, as evidenced on the TV last night, that they are penalty charges levied in respect of a contract breach.

That is why the BBC go to the bother of making documentaries, why the banks have never defended a single claim in court and why the OFT couched it's words when saying "....and a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold.�

It helps the consumers case, somewhat, when companies shoot themselves in the foot by declaring something to be a "late payment fee". Quite how they might hope to assert that this represents anything other than a penalty charge is beyond me - and the best financial legal minds in the British isles.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People need to stop believing the mantra of "banks and companies wouldn't do things like this if they weren't legal". Last night's programme showed, quite succinctly, that they do and will continue to do so unless enough people assert their rights.

The banks cannot, reasonably, expect people to believe that they, armed with teams of lawyers, are shying away from court confrontations and refunding monies out of the goodness of their hearts. Kieron from Matrix Chambers hit the nail on the head when he said he does not believe that they can defend their cost structures in court as reasonable administrative charges. They have been caught stealing money from people and there are those who are minded to ensure that justice is done as we would expect in any such similar criminal case of theft.

They've been stealing money and people are getting / claiming it back. Fact.

So as such, are NTL late payment fees legal? for any matter any companies late payment fees? unless they can prove to a court how they calculate them to be reasonable?

---------- Post added at 12:38 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Marge

I've just had a letter today from British Gas advising that they too are introducing a late penalty fee for customers

Maybe you can save them the bother of sending you the money by letting them know that any such future fees will be reclaimed through the small claims court.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

So as such, are NTL late payment fees legal? for any matter any companies late payment fees? unless they can prove to a court how they calculate them to be reasonable?

Exactly.

[handyman]

This deserves to go in the happy thought thread.

Today I received a Letter from Neil Mckirdy of Yorkshire bank containing a cheque for £1067 for charges claimed agaist my current account. Was 14 days (or so - xmas post) since I posted the bbc letter in as well.

I'm well chuffed (as was the missus )

This gives the green light to have a shot for our joint account as well as other accounts. I also am not due back in work till the 2nd so have a mega amount of time to write up some nice letters.
I'd like to thank all the contributers to this thread, without thier support and sage advice I would never have started this process despite seeing it elsewhere.

Thany you thank you thank you.

I might have me a rep fest....

Originally Posted by handyman

This deserves to go in the happy thought thread.

Today I received a Letter from Neil Mckirdy of Yorkshire bank containing a cheque for £1067 for charges claimed agaist my current account. Was 14 days (or so - xmas post) since I posted the bbc letter in as well.

I'm well chuffed (as was the missus )

This gives the green light to have a shot for our joint account as well as other accounts. I also am not due back in work till the 2nd so have a mega amount of time to write up some nice letters.
I'd like to thank all the contributers to this thread, without thier support and sage advice I would never have started this process despite seeing it elsewhere.

Thany you thank you thank you.

I might have me a rep fest....

Handyman, congratulations - a nice little "bonus" at this time of year.

Well done.

[handyman]

Originally Posted by bopdude

Mmmmm, very interesting link, having read it I wonder how many of 'us' will think of it as too much hassel and leave it at that. I would be owed a fortune lol, well 1000's of £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒââ‚ ¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒâ€š £ÂÃâ €šÃ‚£Ãƒâ€šÃ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚£ÃƒÆ’‚ £'s at any rate, I wonder if this would still apply to an account that has been closed for a couple of years. ??

Get your backside in gear and get it done, i'll give you a hand if needed .

[Shaun]

Well done HM - I'm really pleased for you. It's great to hear that people you know are benefiting from this too.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by handyman

Get your backside in gear and get it done
.

Good to hear you had a result, Iam certainly going to pester my wife into sending a letter or two, I hate to think what she has paid in charges over the last six years

[poolking]

I've paid quite a few charges to Barclays over the years, so I'll be considering action in the new year.

[bopdude]

Originally Posted by handyman

Get your backside in gear and get it done, i'll give you a hand if needed .

You'll be hearing from me in the new year

[handyman]

Well all is not as great as it might have seemed. I assumed that the £1067 was against a claim of £1200 so I asumed that they had given me most of it back (giddy with the cheque in my hand) the letter stated that it was tendered without admission of liability and in full and final settlement of my cliam, cashing the cheque would be taken as my acceptance.

Now after looking up a copy of the letter I see thast my claim was for £2159 and I feel a bit stupid for casing it in giddyness.

I'm not overly bothered if I have messed up but I was thinking could I send them a letter saying thank you for your part payment cover x to x date. Money for dates x to x comes to £1092, given your part payment I'll be prepared to extend a further 14 days terms for payment of the remainder.

Do you think they will buy it?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by handyman

Do you think they will buy it?

Go for it, you have nothing to lose and over £1000 to gain

[poolking]

I think I'll be having a go with Barclays in the new year

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by handyman

Do you think they will buy it?

Normally they get you to sign something to confirm you understand rather than just say that cashing the cheque will confirm you understand.

Mr Angry will be your man but from what I've read of other cases I think they're on a sticky wicket.

[lostandconfused]

it could work, with mine i had to send a letter back confirming that i agreed that they were not in the wrong and that it was just a goodwill gesture that happened to be the exact same amount as all the bank charges i have ever recieved and that i understood that any future charges at the newly reduced rate would be liable on the account.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

....and that i understood that any future charges at the newly reduced rate would be liable on the account.

I'm afraid it was a big mistake on your part agreeing to that.