[Merged] 8Mb ADSL

[altis]

Of course 8mbps is easily capable of transporting any TV channel and most DVDs too.

Wonders how long it will be before these operators start offering all sorts of TV, VoD and VoIP like HomeChoice - neatly sidestepping the need to install any underground cable?

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by altis

Of course 8mbps is easily capable of transporting any TV channel and most DVDs too.

Wonders how long it will be before these operators start offering all sorts of TV, VoD and VoIP like HomeChoice - neatly sidestepping the need to install any underground cable?

That may be so but just think how fat the pipes would have to be if everyone chose that method of viewing and what the quality would be like if they all did it at the same time.

[ProfPete]

But demand will lead development, including higher bandwidth services, better backbones, and in the case of video, multicasting.

I can also see a lot of more localised services turning up. We're already toying with community TV here...

[altis]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

That may be so but just think how fat the pipes would have to be if everyone chose that method of viewing and what the quality would be like if they all did it at the same time.

This is not a problem. I suggest they might do it using one or more HDDs at the exchange/headend for VoD and either multicast-IP or as now (fibre and / or satellite) for TV. Multicasting allows each backhaul packet to be distributed to any number of users simultaneously.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by altis

This is not a problem. I suggest they might do it using one or more HDDs at the exchange/headend for VoD and either multicast-IP or as now (fibre and / or satellite) for TV. Multicasting allows each backhaul packet to be distributed to any number of users simultaneously.

Which is exactly how HomeChoice do it. Multicast compatible DSLAMs.

ONLY 4GB a day????

That will never be enough!!!

[themelon]

Im not convinced about 8Mb ADSL working for many.

I can bareley get 512kb to work up to speed and I live 3 miles from the exchange.

ADSL Seems great if you live next door to the exchange, but what percentage of people are lucky enough to have that privilage.

DSL TV............mmmmmmmmmmmm........I would be Interested to see what would happen to that if it became mass market. I works pretty well for Homechoice, Kingston but what would happen if 50000 people in a city decided to download a movie? Sureley it would be screwed much the same as when 50000 people decide to download a movie off the net! And again, how many would actually be able to recieve it in a supossedly 'Broadband' area?

[altis]

http://www.point-topic.com/content/b...tm&comp_id=783

[Charlie_Bubble]

Haha Saw this on the BBC website, went there, stuck my details in and it's going to be available to me in February. Just about the time my pipex year is up, so I have preregistered!

I live about 700metres from my exchange too!

[DeadKenny]

and what was that argument about ADSL taking it's time upgrading speeds?


UKOnline's 8Mbps service comes to my exchange in February (being based on EasyNet's LLU) and the cost will be the same as I pay for PlusNet's 2Mbps

Puts NTL's upgraded speeds to shame.

[themelon]

Originally Posted by DeadKenny

and what was that argument about ADSL taking it's time upgrading speeds?


UKOnline's 8Mbps service comes to my exchange in February (being based on EasyNet's LLU) and the cost will be the same as I pay for PlusNet's 2Mbps

Puts NTL's upgraded speeds to shame.

Not really

You need to live 2 km from the exchange to be able to recieve this.

Anywhere on the Digital Cable Network can recieve 3Mbs or 4Mbs (Telewest).

Its unlikely that people 4km from the exchange can even recieve 1mbs properly! I know sure as hell I cant!

The majority of ADSL Users are stuck on 512kbs for the foreseeable future, until something is done to overcome the degrading service over distance issues.

[sav112]

I was happy with the news NTL were giving me 1 MB BB for the same old price as my 300K. Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m now just jealous because I live in Glasgow and thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s some package on offer. 8MB I think is a bit over the top, I have no use for it but that does not stop me wanting it.



Great to see such a leap forward in a BB service, Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ll tell you what if I had an extra £15 a month to pump in to my BB I think Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d get it.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by themelon

Not really

You need to live 2 km from the exchange to be able to recieve this.

Anywhere on the Digital Cable Network can recieve 3Mbs or 4Mbs (Telewest).

Its unlikely that people 4km from the exchange can even recieve 1mbs properly! I know sure as hell I cant!

The majority of ADSL Users are stuck on 512kbs for the foreseeable future, until something is done to overcome the degrading service over distance issues.

2Mbps is reachable to about 60% of users on an ADSL enabled exchange, 1Mbps is available to over 90%.

Due to the density of the population surrounding the exchanges this service will be available in UKOnline estimate approximately 50% of users will be able to reach 8Mbps, those who can't their lines will rate adapt to the highest possible downstream that line conditions will allow.

Here's a link showing mapping of line length (not distance as crow flies) from exchange and the up and downstream speeds theoretically available with various impediments to signal quality under ADSL 1 G.DMT.

http://www.dslforum.org/aboutdsl/Tec...rts/TR-048.pdf

[slowcoach]

I live1 mile from the exchange (as the crow flies) so in theory I should be in the 90% reachable group for 1MB/s ADSL yet my max under extended reach was 512 KB/s, this is the difference between theory and practice.

These percentages have probably been arrived at in the laboratory in ideal conditions rather than under the variable line conditions in different areas of the country.

At least with Cable I can order, and receive, 1.5 MB/s without having to live next door to the exchange.

When you have been through the steps 3 times to upgrade your 512 KB/s ADSL and failed 3 times you begin to look at these new advertised speeds and the percentage of people who they will be available for, with a jaundiced view.

The new ADSL speeds appear to me to be more a reaction to the planned Cable speed increases, with companies trying to lure in new customers for the Christmas connection rush more than anything else.

An ADSL line would have to be perfect to avoid loosing connection every few minutes at these higher speeds and we all know that the old telephone system is far from perfect even for voice calls.

Reading the responses in this Forum you get the impression that members think these speeds will be theirs for the asking, even though many members must live even further from their local telephone exchange than I do.

Steam Radio will never be able to compete no matter how much it is tweaked.

[DeadKenny]

Originally Posted by slowcoach

I live1 mile from the exchange (as the crow flies) so in theory I should be in the 90% reachable group for 1MB/s ADSL yet my max under extended reach was 512 KB/s, this is the difference between theory and practice.

No, that's down to understanding the difference between "as the crow flies" and the real line length. There's no in theory about it, you must be a lot longer distance from the exchange than you thought so you're not in the 90% group.

At least with Cable I can order, and receive, 1.5 MB/s without having to live next door to the exchange.

I could order and receive it, but it was never reliable. The reason being that the line quality was crap. Maybe affected by distance too I don't know. With NTL they don't care about the line quality, they just connect the cable and leave without checking any signals. With BT they put limits and actually admit that your line may not be good enough to receive the service you want. If NTL did that, it would probably save a vast amount of money wasted on pointless call outs to fix lines that are unfixable.

The new ADSL speeds appear to me to be more a reaction to the planned Cable speed increases, with companies trying to lure in new customers for the Christmas connection rush more than anything else.

No, just a progression of technology. This 8Mbps service has nothing to do with BT, being LLU, and they can offer speeds that the technology can actually cope with. If the length of the line is too long it's reduced to 6, 4 or 2Mbps, but you're guaranteed 2Mbps. If anything UK Online are competing with the likes of Bullldog, not the cable companies (who tend to have a monopoly in cabled areas anyway as most people automatically go for cable with the assumption that it must be better). Also, UK Online are not competing with cable in non-cabled areas. Their coverage is far greater than cable can ever reach.

It's worth pointing out that as "wonderful" as cable is deemed to be, NTL are investing in expanding their network using LLU ADSL. It's cheaper for them and more reliable. Eventually the majority of NTL/Telewest customers will be accessing the internet through ADSL.

An ADSL line would have to be perfect to avoid loosing connection every few minutes at these higher speeds and we all know that the old telephone system is far from perfect even for voice calls.

I've not lost connection on my ADSL for a month now. Not once. My cable modem would drop connection every day. In some cases it wouldn't regain connection for hours. With NTL, your line also has to be perfect to avoid losing connection every few minutes.

It's also a myth that cable is modern and advanced to an extent that it doesn't suffer from the problems that the POTS does. Most of the cable is 10 to 20 years old and was designed for analogue TV. If you remember the analogue cable days you may have noticed that a lot of people's cable reception was not actually as great as people assumed it would be. Mine was grainy and had interference and I'd seen the same in other's houses. Only if the cable was in good condition was it fine. For broadband the cable works on a broadcast system on the downstream much like the old coax Ethernet cables and we all know how problematic that was (collisions of traffic, interference and major problems if a connection was unterminated, all of these are symptoms on cable). With ADSL you get a dedicated connection down copper wire, and regardless of the age of the wire, it's surprisingly reliable, plus it's far more resistant to rot and being eaten by things in the ground.

This is all of course before even considering the roll out of ADSL2/2+.

Reading the responses in this Forum you get the impression that members think these speeds will be theirs for the asking, even though many members must live even further from their local telephone exchange than I do.

It's clearly stated on UK Online's site that you may not get the full 8Mbps, but you should get a minimum of 2Mbps. The majority will get between 6 and 8Mbps though.