County Court (Small Claims track)

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tinky

Make sure you have all relevant documents with you and that they are in some kind of order, otherwise you might get flustered if you can't find what you are looking for.

Good advice there and getting flustered aside some judges don't like it if you are reading your notes and documents whilst the case is being heard, although it's fine to make notes on things you want to challenge later.

Good luck, I hope justice prevails for you

[Shaun]

Make sure you have a time line of the events that occurred that is easily understood at a glance. Also make sure that each event has some documentation to support it and number them the same. I.E. event 1 paperwork bundle 1.

That way if he states that X happened on Y date then you can counter it with the correct date/info and easily pass paperwork to the magistrate to corroberate your claim.

Also, don't panic, the magistrates come up against idiots like your land lord day in, day out. If you're honest and sincere (and have paper work/photos to back you up) then you'll do fine I'm sure Tez.

[Tinky]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Make sure you have a time line of the events that occurred that is easily understood at a glance. Also make sure that each event has some documentation to support it and number them the same. I.E. event 1 paperwork bundle 1.

That way if he states that X happened on Y date then you can counter it with the correct date/info and easily pass paperwork to the magistrate to corroberate your claim.

Also, don't panic, the magistrates come up against idiots like your land lord day in, day out. If you're honest and sincere (and have paper work/photos to back you up) then you'll do fine I'm sure Tez.

Sorry Shaun don't mean to be picky, just to clarify, there are no Magistrates in the County Court. Magistrates are in Magistrates Courts (criminal). District Judges, Circuit Judges etc., are County Court (Civil).

[cookie_365]

Don't try to impress anyone with words like 'aforementioned' and 'herewithto' .And don't drop in legal jargon you don't understand but have heard on CSI Doncaster.

Never say 'with respect'

Just speaka da Inglisha.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Tinky

Sorry Shaun don't mean to be picky, just to clarify, there are no Magistrates in the County Court. Magistrates are in Magistrates Courts (criminal). District Judges, Circuit Judges etc., are County Court (Civil).

Pedant

[Bengie]

There will be a duty solicitor at the court and you may use him, his fees come from the courts.
Be there an hour (or more) before you are due to appear and go find his office.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Chris W

Matt I used to work in a court doing witness support, and also studied law, so if you want some advice then give me a shout on msn.

Thanks, Chris, I may take you up on that

Originally Posted by popper

'is finally being heard next week'

its leaving it a little late but you might go pop over to the
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lords-tenants/
section and perhaps the chatroom http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

plently of people there to help you understand some of the tricks that might be played against you in court by the other side etc.

Handy links, thanks

Originally Posted by Tinky

Be punctual, do not be late for your appointment. Be clean and presentable. The Usher will call your name when it is time to go into court. If you are nervous you can ask for someone else to speak for you, this is called a lay represtantive. The lay representative must first complete a form (obtained from the court counter) and hand it to the District Judge before the case commences. Be respectful to the Judge, address him/her as Sir/Madam, and do not argue with the Judge. Make sure you have all relevant documents with you and that they are in some kind of order, otherwise you might get flustered if you can't find what you are looking for. Do not raise your voice or swear. Do not interrupt. Good luck!

Ta

We're leaving quite a bit earlier than we need to, to make sure we still get there early even if there's bad traffic.

I've got a big black ring binder with every letter, document etc. in it, in chronological order. I also have 160 photos of the state of the house throughout the last two hellish months (major building works, disrepair, lack of facilities, & more...).

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Good advice there and getting flustered aside some judges don't like it if you are reading your notes and documents whilst the case is being heard, although it's fine to make notes on things you want to challenge later.

Good luck, I hope justice prevails for you

Cheers

Originally Posted by Shaun

Make sure you have a time line of the events that occurred that is easily understood at a glance. Also make sure that each event has some documentation to support it and number them the same. I.E. event 1 paperwork bundle 1.

That way if he states that X happened on Y date then you can counter it with the correct date/info and easily pass paperwork to the magistrate to corroberate your claim.

Also, don't panic, the magistrates come up against idiots like your land lord day in, day out. If you're honest and sincere (and have paper work/photos to back you up) then you'll do fine I'm sure Tez.

Thanks


I have a long, detailed timeline (which has already been submitted), plus various other bits.

Originally Posted by cookie_365

Don't try to impress anyone with words like 'aforementioned' and 'herewithto' .And don't drop in legal jargon you don't understand but have heard on CSI Doncaster.

Never say 'with respect'

Just speaka da Inglisha.

LOL, OK.

Originally Posted by Bengie

There will be a duty solicitor at the court and you may use him, his fees come from the courts.
Be there an hour (or more) before you are due to appear and go find his office.

Handy info, thanks

---------- Post added at 01:50 ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 ----------

Oh, a few questions, in case anyone knows & can help:


We (& they) had a deadline of "no later than 14 days before the hearing" to submit any further documents, evidence, etc., which we wish to rely on in Court.

We submitted a few things we hadn't yet submitted back in the summer with the original claim form & particulars of claim - the photos, my timeline, & another witness statement from one of us. All in time.

The landlord & his wife then submitted "responses" to our submissions.

The response to my signed timeline did come in time, but is a string of fabrications. Is that something I can challenge?

The response to my housemate's statement came 1 day late, & is more BS. Would it still be allowed, & if so can it be challenged?

Is there any way to submit late evidence? I obtained a signed statement from a former housemate (not one a party to the claim, he lived there before the tenancy-ending problems began), supporting some things I'd mentioned as backstory, & also rebutting some of the new BS claims (& continuing BS claims) from the landlord in his recent & only-just-in-time response to my submissions. But, I didn't get it 'till last weekend, so it's too late to send off.


Oh. Crap. More questions:


Anyone actually been in a small claims hearing (or other) in a County Court? What's it actually like? Is it really daunting? What's the general sort of procedure for things?


Sorry.


Jittery.

[Tinky]

Originally Posted by cookie_365

Don't try to impress anyone with words like 'aforementioned' and 'herewithto' .And don't drop in legal jargon you don't understand but have heard on CSI Doncaster.

Never say 'with respect'

Just speaka da Inglisha.

Notwithstanding..... lol, Matt try to stay calm it is not as scary as you might imagine, the only people in the Court will be the Judge and his Clerk, the Usher, and the other side and their Solicitor, if they have one. It will all be over and done with before you know it. Good luck I wish you all the best and will be interested to hear the outcome. Which County Court is it by the way?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Anyone actually been in a small claims hearing (or other) in a County Court? What's it actually like? Is it really daunting? What's the general sort of procedure for things?

My sister was a Clark at the County Court, it's not daunting, in fact it's pretty relaxed, certainly in the questioning of witnesses, bare in mind though if you win the defendant has up to 21 day's to appeal, so you might end up having to go back at a later date

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Matt D

I've got a big black ring binder with every letter, document etc. in it, in chronological order. I also have 160 photos of the state of the house throughout the last two hellish months (major building works, disrepair, lack of facilities, & more...).

I have a long, detailed timeline (which has already been submitted), plus various other bits.

Oh, a few questions, in case anyone knows & can help:

We (& they) had a deadline of "no later than 14 days before the hearing" to submit any further documents, evidence, etc., which we wish to rely on in Court.

We submitted a few things we hadn't yet submitted back in the summer with the original claim form & particulars of claim - the photos, my timeline, & another witness statement from one of us. All in time.

The landlord & his wife then submitted "responses" to our submissions.

The response to my signed timeline did come in time, but is a string of fabrications. Is that something I can challenge?

The response to my housemate's statement came 1 day late, & is more BS. Would it still be allowed, & if so can it be challenged?

Is there any way to submit late evidence? I obtained a signed statement from a former housemate (not one a party to the claim, he lived there before the tenancy-ending problems began), supporting some things I'd mentioned as backstory, & also rebutting some of the new BS claims (& continuing BS claims) from the landlord in his recent & only-just-in-time response to my submissions. But, I didn't get it 'till last weekend, so it's too late to send off.

Oh. Crap. More questions:

Anyone actually been in a small claims hearing (or other) in a County Court? What's it actually like? Is it really daunting? What's the general sort of procedure for things?

I have gone to small claims court once. It is a relaxed process, not your criminal crown court style thing. The SCC I went to had a large conference room table and the judges desk in it. It was more of a meeting room than a court room. I sat on one long side of the desk, they sat on the other. The judge behind his desk.

He will want to know why this has come to court and why this could not be rectified beforehand. Here is where you should hopefully be seen to be the more reasonable party.

You get to present why he owes you the money back, he gets to tell the judge why he does not. The judge should have read the case file and the timline is the important part of that.

Late evidence may well be accepted, it is a more informal hearing than other courts and you can explain why this was recieved late and that it indicates a pattern of behaviour from the defendant.

Don't get flustered, if the other guy is acting all arsey and intimidating it will not help how he looks to the judge, the judge is just a guy or gal like you or I doing his job and realises that you are not legally trained.

Where he has said crazy things in his response just work through them methodically, I guess say this is my version of events, Sir have you read them, I will now go through and deal with the differences in his version of events and show where I believe his version is incorrect and where I have evidence.

I was nervous going into the case, but as others have said it is a bit like your first interview, you always have some jitters in latter interviews, but as you know the drill it is easier.

You and your mates should sit around a dining table, put one at the top, you on your side and he on his. You should present you story, you need to start with the 'lift conversation', how would you present this to the judge if you had 10 stories or 60 seconds to get him up to speed standing next to him in a lift, get to the punchline. Then elucidate. There will be minimal interuptions, he should not interupt you, the judge may stop you to seek clarification.

Since then running a small business I have used MCOL to issue a few more small claims, I have a couple more to do this week actually (non paying customers).

When it's a case of one word against another, it can come down simply to who sounds most convincing. If you truly believe you're in the right you should be ok, and you won't need to embellish or distort the truth to bolster your case. Just tell it how it is, quietly and politely insist on the facts and that ought to give you the best chance. I had a friend who won her case in this way after an RTA some years ago, despite the complete lack of any independent witnesses. The fact is, the other driver was in the wrong and full of BS, and she was able to simply state the truth. Judges are trained professionals, they ought to be able to spot who's really the injured party here.

[hatedbythemail]

similarly my partner won an rta case, as she should have, only last week by being brutally honest. if she couldn't remember something she said so rather than bs around it. seems to have done the trick which means £400 excess recovered (yes i know, what kind of policy is that) plus refund due on premiums loaded since.

good luck with it matt. the landlord scenario sounds pretty familiar which means will be very familar to a judge. dont think i can add any advice beyond whats already been offered - lets hope the fella drops himself in it, leaving you with not much work to do fingers crossed for you mate.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Thanks all for the advice & support

Originally Posted by Tinky

Notwithstanding..... lol, Matt try to stay calm it is not as scary as you might imagine, the only people in the Court will be the Judge and his Clerk, the Usher, and the other side and their Solicitor, if they have one. It will all be over and done with before you know it. Good luck I wish you all the best and will be interested to hear the outcome. Which County Court is it by the way?

Cheers.

I'm trying to stay calm, not doing a very good job at the moment though, lol.

We all met up again tonight, to go over stuff.

I'm glad it should only be both sides & the Judge etc. I think I'd be even more nervous if it was fully open to the public.


It's in High Wycombe, tomorrow. Would've been so much easier for us if it stayed in Cambridge, but apparently claims get transferred to the Defendant's local County Court if they intend to defend.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

My sister was a Clark at the County Court, it's not daunting, in fact it's pretty relaxed, certainly in the questioning of witnesses, bare in mind though if you win the defendant has up to 21 day's to appeal, so you might end up having to go back at a later date

They can appeal? Damn . One of the things i read online said there was no automatic right of appeal, & the losing side could only appeal if there'd be an error in law or procedure.

Originally Posted by SMHarman

I have gone to small claims court once. It is a relaxed process, not your criminal crown court style thing. The SCC I went to had a large conference room table and the judges desk in it. It was more of a meeting room than a court room. I sat on one long side of the desk, they sat on the other. The judge behind his desk.

He will want to know why this has come to court and why this could not be rectified beforehand. Here is where you should hopefully be seen to be the more reasonable party.

You get to present why he owes you the money back, he gets to tell the judge why he does not. The judge should have read the case file and the timline is the important part of that.

Late evidence may well be accepted, it is a more informal hearing than other courts and you can explain why this was recieved late and that it indicates a pattern of behaviour from the defendant.

Don't get flustered, if the other guy is acting all arsey and intimidating it will not help how he looks to the judge, the judge is just a guy or gal like you or I doing his job and realises that you are not legally trained.

Where he has said crazy things in his response just work through them methodically, I guess say this is my version of events, Sir have you read them, I will now go through and deal with the differences in his version of events and show where I believe his version is incorrect and where I have evidence.

I was nervous going into the case, but as others have said it is a bit like your first interview, you always have some jitters in latter interviews, but as you know the drill it is easier.

You and your mates should sit around a dining table, put one at the top, you on your side and he on his. You should present you story, you need to start with the 'lift conversation', how would you present this to the judge if you had 10 stories or 60 seconds to get him up to speed standing next to him in a lift, get to the punchline. Then elucidate. There will be minimal interuptions, he should not interupt you, the judge may stop you to seek clarification.

Since then running a small business I have used MCOL to issue a few more small claims, I have a couple more to do this week actually (non paying customers).

Cheers. From what you & everyone else has said, it sounds like it hopefully shouldn't be too daunting.


I hope he does act arsey & intimidating - it wouldn't surprise me if he did, & he can get quite argumentative & angry.

Originally Posted by Chris T

When it's a case of one word against another, it can come down simply to who sounds most convincing. If you truly believe you're in the right you should be ok, and you won't need to embellish or distort the truth to bolster your case. Just tell it how it is, quietly and politely insist on the facts and that ought to give you the best chance. I had a friend who won her case in this way after an RTA some years ago, despite the complete lack of any independent witnesses. The fact is, the other driver was in the wrong and full of BS, and she was able to simply state the truth. Judges are trained professionals, they ought to be able to spot who's really the injured party here.

Cheers.

We know we're in the right, plus the CAB, the Council's Tenancy Relations Office, & a solicitor have all previously told us we're in the right.

Some of it will simply be our word against theirs, & they seem quite happy to blatantly lie, going by their previous signed submissions.


I hope the Judge will have read everything beforehand - there's an awful lot of paperwork for him/her to go through

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

similarly my partner won an rta case, as she should have, only last week by being brutally honest. if she couldn't remember something she said so rather than bs around it. seems to have done the trick which means £400 excess recovered (yes i know, what kind of policy is that) plus refund due on premiums loaded since.

good luck with it matt. the landlord scenario sounds pretty familiar which means will be very familar to a judge. dont think i can add any advice beyond whats already been offered - lets hope the fella drops himself in it, leaving you with not much work to do fingers crossed for you mate.

Thanks. Hopefully the Judge will have common sense, and hopefully will be able to see through the other side's BS.



Anyway. Tomorrow morning, let Justice prevail...


I'll be back with the verdict...

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Thanks all for the advice & support

They can appeal? Damn . One of the things i read online said there was no automatic right of appeal, & the losing side could only appeal if there'd be an error in law or procedure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A1183448#5

Hope it all works out for you

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A1183448#5

Hope it all works out for you

Hmm.

Originally Posted by BBC link

5. Appealing

If you want to appeal, you must file a notice of appeal within 14 days of your case. A fee is payable although this could be waived in cases of financial hardship.

You will probably need legal assistance if you wish to appeal against the decision. The Citizen’s Advice Bureau will be able to help you, or you can appoint a solicitor.

But

http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/law/smallclaimscourt.shtml

Can I appeal?

There's no formal appeal procedure. The judge makes an immediate decision and the parties get a full and final result on the day. The only exception comes when a decision is made in the absence of the respondent because they could not attend, they can apply for the judgement to be set aside.

and

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...ms.htm#Appeals

Appeals

You may appeal against a judgement in the small claims track only if the court made a mistake in law or there was a serious irregularity in the proceedings. If you want to appeal, you must file a notice of appeal within 21 days. A fee is payable although this could be waived in cases of financial hardship.

If you want to appeal against a decision in the small claims track, you should consult a solicitor or an experienced adviser for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by email, click on nearest CAB.