UsetServer slow Downloads

Originally Posted by RXP

Bill, I don't think anyone is discussing morality here though. Because the moral case for IP law is even weaker and malable. Purported IP theft doesn't deprive anyone of their goods, it kills millions around the world due to expensive drug costs and it is only considered theft because big money has more legislative and judicial influence than democracy.

If we took a referendum on the question of suing people for downloading films/music I cannot see us loosing. I mean the latest estimates show millions are doing it, even more will think it's a waste of police and court time when there are 'real' criminals out there.

The market demands VOD. However, the incumbants cannot decide on how to supply it, how to get around the IP problems, technology. So the market takes it through other channels, IMHO.

I agree. I stand corrected, Not had enough coffee yet. However my question still stands to those that complain about downloads "Is it ok to fill your bandwidth 24/7 with legal downloads, Is that any different than illegal downloads to the network" ?

That's why i agree with traffic shaping between certain hours. It allows a level playing field at peak times but allows for downloading at times that will not affect the majority of other users. However that traffic shaping must be done correctly or it just makes a whole mess of your connection.

[RXP]

It's a weak defence indeed. And I'm not sure why consumers want big corporate firms who act like criminals most of the time to beef up their profit margins. And I too agree with QoS (traffic shaping) controls. Whining about traffic shaping between 5pm-12pm has no merit. But if they introduce it 24/7 it's just a method to boost profit, while breaching our contract (as I set my arguments in this thread

Originally Posted by RXP

It's a weak defence indeed. And I'm not sure why consumers want big corporate firms who act like criminals most of the time to beef up their profit margins. And I too agree with QoS (traffic shaping) controls. Whining about traffic shaping between 5pm-12pm has no merit. But if they introduce it 24/7 it's just a method to boost profit, while breaching our contract (as I set my arguments in this thread

You know my feelings on it as well. I only download out of normal hours.

[anduin]

Originally Posted by RXP

1) Wrong jurisdiction.
2) It doesn't completely dismiss anything. There is no legal argument made on the page. It just says "downloading is illegal" There is no reference to jurisprudence from case law or statute. Not saying there is no argument to be made for the case in the US. But about.com isn't where you'll find it.
3)

This is a load of huff too. If I pay a dodgy kid down the street to download music, it's not legal. He doesn't own the copyright.

Copyright, Designs and patents act 1998 C 48

26.—(1) Where copyright in a work is infringed by a public performance of the work, or by the playing or showing of the work in public, by means of apparatus for—
(a) playing sound recordings,
(b) showing films, or
(c) receiving visual images or sounds conveyed by electronic means,
the following persons are also liable for the infringement.

and @ BillC:
No i am not some puritan, i never professed to be either...

But MY service is affected by people downloading illicit amounts of 'files' You yourself have been complaining about slow downloads, yet remarkably you are one of the large contributors to the problem... You say that you download only in the wee hours and not during primetime - good for you; My simple point was that people eat stupid amounts of GB bandwidth and its just not cricket !

Originally Posted by anduin

You say that you download only in the wee hours and not during primetime - good for you; My simple point was that people eat stupid amounts of GB bandwidth and its just not cricket !

I understand where you are coming from However what if all that bandwidth used was legal, What then ?

And BTW my slow speeds were down to the ubr needing upgrading. I was on a Oversubscribed card, That means sales had over sold that card. It had nothing to do with people downloading.

[Rik]

Originally Posted by anduin

All you people moan about slow speeds, then you sit there and saturate bandwidth all day long..

We dont all sit here downloading the internet all day long you know, just a few that abuse the service.

Please dont tar us all with the same brush, no one has mentioned how long they download for at all on this thread unless im going blind and need glasses?

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Bill C

I understand where you are coming from However what if all that bandwidth used was legal, What then ?

And BTW my slow speeds were down to the ubr needing upgrading. I was on a Oversubscribed card, That means sales had over sold that card. It had nothing to do with people downloading.

Exactly how do people know the bad performance in their area is down to people abusing the system, and not a technical problem with the Network??? or its just completely knackered and needs upgrading etc.

Originally Posted by Rik

We dont all sit here downloading the internet all day long you know, just a few that abuse the service.

Please dont tar us all with the same brush, no one has mentioned how long they download for at all on this thread unless im going blind and need glasses?

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 ----------



Exactly how do people know the bad performance in their area is down to people abusing the system, and not a technical problem with the Network???

My downloads will last about 2-3 hours in the wee hours of the night. but i have to admit that is most nights. I use Newsleecher and that has the ability to arrange a download for a certain time and to adjust the amount of bandwidth allocated. I tend NOT to use Bittorrent as it has a detrimental affect on upload in my opinion

[anduin]

Originally Posted by Rik

We dont all sit here downloading the internet all day long you know, just a few that abuse the service.

Please dont tar us all with the same brush, no one has mentioned how long they download for at all on this thread unless im going blind and need glasses?

You need to re-read this thread, never have i said that all nntp traffic should be stopped, and never have i said they 'all newsgroups users are at fault'

So no i didnt tar you at all, and if i did it would have been quickly followed by feathers

Maybe i had better repeat myself for you..
#
Can't have it both ways, either accept that there is only so much bandwidth in the world and limit yourselves, or dont moan when you are forcefully slowed down or stopped from pillaging it all.

Frankly you are lucky i dont get to make the decisions .. if i did you people using 200gb+ of bandwidth a month would be looking for another service provider.

First we had slow connections, then we got fast ones with a useage cap, now we have faster ones with traffic shaping...

Note the trend, bandwidth is not free and the more we use as a group the more NTL will have to impose restrictions and or increase prices.

[RXP]

Originally Posted by anduin

Copyright, Designs and patents act 1998 C 48

26.—(1) Where copyright in a work is infringed by a public performance of the work, or by the playing or showing of the work in public, by means of apparatus for—
(a) playing sound recordings,
(b) showing films, or
(c) receiving visual images or sounds conveyed by electronic means,
the following persons are also liable for the infringement.

I highlighted public

c.48 relates to public performance.

[jtwn]

Originally Posted by Bill C

BTW i don't download music

Thats because you download high def material like Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets eh Bill?

Originally Posted by jtwn

Thats because you download high def material like Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets eh Bill?

Indeed.

I have never hid behind the Linux lie

[anduin]

Originally Posted by RXP

I highlighted public

c.48 relates to public performance.

I don't pretend to be a lawyer, I dont pretend to know everything... why do you pretend that taking things that are not rightfully yours is legal?

The sheer fact of the matter is that its theft; and you wanting to try and be biggerer and clevererer than everybody else on the forums makes no difference to that FACT.

And to drag this post back on topic i reiterate, download whatever content you like, just dont start to moan when NTL limit your capability to download your apparent 'legal' content.

You are a leech to the community; seems to me you want to Steal digital data for your own use, and to hell with other users on the network that have to put up with slow downloads etc etc.

I have made my point on this thread and will no longer bother to continue with the argument. NTL set out terms and conditions;; they can change said terms and conditions legally;; and if you dont like the changes they make to their terms and conditions go find another supplier.

[RXP]

Originally Posted by anduin

why do you pretend that taking things that are not rightfully yours is legal?

The sheer fact of the matter is that its theft; and you wanting to try and be biggerer and clevererer than everybody else on the forums makes no difference to that FACT.

When we're having a discussion about what is 'rightfully' mine it's a moral discussion. When we are having a discussion about what is legal, it's a legal discussion, that is axiomatic and you don't need to be a lawyer to undersand that. I'm not.

Now you are saying what us usenet downloaders do is illegal and that it's hurting the network. This, frankly, ****es me off. It's not illegal and you have no proof it hurts the network. Now your moral compus compels your heat to bleed for the media cartels, who themselves are corporate criminals/lawbreakers. That's your moral choice. Please don't confuse legality with morality. Writing it's a FACT doesn't make it a legal truth. It just shows your grasping at straws.

I appologise if I have come across to be 'bigger' than anyone. But I just laid out my arguments without personal insult.

[anduin]

Your blinkers to the real world really are annoying...

The reason people pay for newsgroup access is for the binaries, else they would use the free newsserver that ntl provide. Time for you to come out with other rubbish reasons like "ntl's retention isnt as good" etc etc.

and as for the ludicrous 'i have no proof that it hurts the network', you really need to rethink that...
Go look at contention, the cost of bandwidth, maximum throughputs of all the equipment on ntl;s network. Go look at the total amount of bandwidth at telehouse or telecity. The look at the amount of people taking bandwidth from it all. Then come back to me and tell me how people downloading masses of content does not affect other users.

I am not compelled to fight any corner apart from my own; any from where i am sitting it seems that greedy a***holes who just want to download everything available to them are ruining the service that i pay ntl for.

[the_wid]

I've been using the internet since the early Nineties, back then I had a 28.8k modem, paid by the minute and in those days it took 30 minutes to download a 2mb file.

Then Broadband came along, downloading got quicker, but that was a by product of what was meant to give me faster surfing, now because of the "Burst" method of delivery of information that Cable uses, 2mb B/Band doesn't load a web page significantlly faster than 10mb.

Howvever, NTL sell this service to me by saying i can download "at least" 75gb a month and now says in there advertising I can download in excess of this if I wish.

If I was downloading web pages and txt emails I could never in 10 yrs fill 75gb.

It would be very expensive to legally download in excess of 75gb of material, so why use this usage as a main selling point, because, I think, downloading is to an extent an accepted part of modern culture and corparations will cash in on this by selling the service to enable you to do it, then prosecute you if you do! I sort of feel what its like to be a smoker!

I for the main part download TV episodes, not all, but mostly. This in itself is not legal, but then its not strictly legal to record an episode of corrie on your VHS tape recorder under your TV.

I also subscribe to Sky online movies, which allows me to legally download as many movies a month as I like at about 900mb in size.

Back in my dial up days, bandwidth was a major issue, as the americans woke up and started work, the Internet would slow to a crawl, Broadband was to bring the end of all that, and it has, Bandwidth is now managed and sold between corparations and end users.

10mb seemed to be a new ceiling, now we are on the brink of 20, 25 and even 30mb home broadband.

Why do we need it, we all know why the majority need it, your just damned if you do.