NTL October Phone Price Changes

Originally Posted by ian@huth

How else can an ISP advertise a broadband service other than as an upto figure? There are a lot of factors that can prevent a customer from getting the maximum speed that their connection is sold as and many of these factors are completely outwith the control of the ISP.

On the telephone side It may be that NTL are bringing in new call plans in the new year but that may be too late. I have been getting a retention deal for my telephone service for the past few months but that has now come to an end. It will take an even better deal to persuade me to stay with NTL for the telephone when I call them in the next day or two. There is nothing at all wrong with the NTL telephone service itself, it is purely a matter of cost.

Until the day that the technology is available whereby if you achieve 10mb connection for example then you are charged for that, a kind of sliding scale for example on average.
If it is £30 for 10mb per month, this equates to £3 per mb?
You are charged for the average speed you achieve over that month, why can this not be possible?
Going back to my argument, if I dont get a full pound why should I pay for a full pound?
But hang on, far much easier just to say, you get upto 10mb, even if you dont achieve that speed tough ****sky ( as the russians say )
Your point about the telephone service is right, there is not a lot that can go wrong regardless who the provider, it is the cost that it boils down to, and sadly the cs when things with NTL do go wrong.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Until the day that the technology is available whereby if you achieve 10mb connection for example then you are charged for that, a kind of sliding scale for example on average.
If it is £30 for 10mb per month, this equates to £3 per mb?
You are charged for the average speed you achieve over that month, why can this not be possible?
Going back to my argument, if I dont get a full pound why should I pay for a full pound?
But hang on, far much easier just to say, you get upto 10mb, even if you dont achieve that speed tough ****sky ( as the russians say )
Your point about the telephone service is right, there is not a lot that can go wrong regardless who the provider, it is the cost that it boils down to, and sadly the cs when things with NTL do go wrong.

I suppose that the ISP could charge on metered data throughput but who in their right mind wants metering?

When you buy a pound of apples it is something that can be measured and never varies. When you subscribe to a broadband internet connection you are paying for something more akin to buying an airline ticket. That ticket enables you to fly from A to B but gives no guarantee of how long that journey may take. Congestion at the airport, technical problems with the aircraft and the speed and direction of the wind can all affect the journey time.

Your 10Mb internet connection will only work at that speed if the sites that you are connecting to are capable of transferring to you at that speed. There must also be enough capacity in the interconnecting infrastructure for that speed to be maintained. You are then dependent on what the other customers on your UBR card are doing. Being a contended service at a budget price there is every chance that other customers usage can affect your service particularly at peak times. Traffic shaping by the ISP can also result in you not getting the full speed.

[banjo]

This thread is wandering off the telephone topic and on to internet discussion, sorry to ask but I have a decision to make about who I use for my telephone provider in the near future, thank you.

[Shaun]

Sorry this is a long post but please bear with it.

Originally Posted by banjo

I am not wingeing , but if I go back to BT is there a minimum period that I would have to be with them before I could change to another provider on their system ? Any people who think they are getting a much better deal could you please post and let us know what they are Thank you.

If it's a reconnection it's 3 months.

Once you are on their basic package £11 a month you can use a provider like www.1899.com for calls at 0ppm and 3p connection. Basically for 01 and 02 numbers that 3p per call no matter how long you're on the call.

If you have Ntl BB and want to keep it you can just ditch the Ntl line and get Vonage (or another VOIP line) for about £7.99 a month including all calls to 01 and 02 at all times and for as long as you like.

Personally I love my Vonage line but if I didn't have it I'd go for BT with the addition of 1899. BTW with 1899 you can start using it the day BT reactivate your line.

---------------------------------------------------------------

To summarise, the call charges, for 01/02 calls:

BT/1899 combo
Line Rental - £11 a month
Call per min (not weekends) - 0ppm
Call per min (weekends) - 0ppm
Call connection - 3ppc

Ntl (Talk Weekends)
Line Rental - £11 a month
Call per min (weekends) - 0ppm**
Call per min (not weekends) - 3ppm
Call connection - 6ppc

Ntl (Talk Unlimited 24)
Line Rental - £25 a month*
Call per min (weekends) - 0ppm**
Call per min (not weekends) - 0ppm**
Call connection - 0ppc

Vonage (if you already have Ntl BB)
Line Rental - £7.99 a month*
Call per min (weekends) - 0ppm
Call per min (not weekends) - 0ppm
Call connection - 0ppc

These prices are for 01 and 02 calls.

-------------------------------

For mobiles the difference is also strking!

BT/1899 combo
Call per min (not weekends) - 10ppm
Call per min evenings - 10ppm
Call per min (weekends) - 3ppm
Call connection - 3ppc

Ntl (Talk Weekends)
Call per min (not weekends) - 19ppm
Call per min evenings - 11ppm
Call per min (weekends) - 6ppm
Call connection - 6ppc

[I]Ntl (Talk Unlimited 24)***
Call per min (not weekends) - 11.73ppm
Call per min evenings - 8ppm
Call per min (weekends) - 3.6ppm
Call connection - 6ppc

Vonage (if you already have Ntl BB)
Call per min (not weekends) - 15ppm
Call per min evenings - 10ppm
Call per min (weekends) - 5ppm
Call connection - 0ppc

---------------------------------------------------------------

Lets look at someone who spends £25 on 01 and 02 calls a month (to make it fair to the NTL TU24 tariff) and then £25 a month on mobile calls.

What do they get for their £25 on 01/02 calls(or their £7.99 on Vonage, as you'll see you just can't spend any more than that on 01 and 02 calls)?

The assumptions I've made here are that the 01/02 calls were made for 1/2 an hour so as to be fair to the Ntl TW tarrif. I have also included the call connection fees. In addition I've rounded to the nearest whole unit as you can't really make half a call.

BT/1899 combo
£11 Spent on line rental.
£14 Spent on 466 calls of 1/2 an hour (but there is no redial clause after 60min) at any time of the week.
----
£25

Ntl (Talk Weekends)
£11 Spent on line rental.
£14 Spent on 15 calls of 1/2 an hour during the week
£00 Spent on unlimited calls of less than 60 min at the weekend.
----
£25

[I]Ntl (Talk Unlimited 24)***
£25 Spent on line rental.
£00 Spent on unlimited calls of less than 60 min at any time.
----
£25

Vonage (if you already have Ntl BB)
£7.99 Spent on line rental.
£00 Spent on unlimited calls of any length, at any time.
£17.07 saved by the customeras they were unable to spend it on 01/02 calls.
----
£25

So to summarise. If we compare the packages in two pairs, Bt and 1899 combo compared to NTL TW. We can see that you really do need to make a LOT of calls at weekends to make the tariff attractive over the BT/1899 package. Were talking more than 451 calls only at weekends, that's more than 50 a day every weekend day. If you make any more than 15 weekday calls over the month then this package gets worse value.

If we then look a the two unlimited packages, Vonage and Ntl TU24 we see an even bigger disparity. Yes both offer an unlimited number of calls to landlines but you MUST redial after 60 min with Ntl or you are charged 3ppm (+6ppc) for every minute over the 60. This is not the case with Vonage, in-fact it is only the Ntl packages that make you to this, 1899 is also unlimited time wise.
The most striking thing about these two packages are the cost though. With vonage you only pay £7.99 a month, there is no additional way to spend the rest of the £25 on calls so the customer is instantly £17.01 better off with Vonage when it comes to landline calls.

Infact Vonage beats all the other packages even though it is the cheapest. One thing to note over this is the fact that there will be costs (approx £22.30) in setting up Vonage but to be fair they would be more than saved over the first two months. In addition Vonage have been known to drop the activation fee of 9.99+VAT if you buy over the phone.
----------------------------

Lets now talk about mobiles - can Ntl claw something back here on £25 a months worth of mobile calls?

The assumption I've made here are firstly that there is no connection fee. There is (I've listed them below) but to be honest they make the calculations too difficult without writing a spreadsheet! In addition I've rounded to the nearest whole unit as you can't really make half a call.

For this section I have taken it as a given that the £25 was spent equally over the 3 time bands - daytime, evening, and weekend.

Firstly the call charges are above and I have used them to work out the number of minutes you'd get for your £8.33 in each time band.

BT/1899 combo
Number of minutes Daytime for £8.33 - 83
Number of minutes Evening for £8.33 - 83
Number of minutes Weekends for £8.33 - 278
Total minutes 444

Ntl (Talk Weekends)
Number of minutes Daytime for £8.33 - 44
Number of minutes Evening for £8.33 - 76
Number of minutes Weekends for £8.33 - 139
Total minutes 359

Ntl (Talk Unlimited 24)***
Number of minutes Daytime for £8.33 - 71
Number of minutes Evening for £8.33 - 104
Number of minutes Weekends for £8.33 - 231
Total minutes 406

Vonage (if you already have Ntl BB)
Number of minutes Daytime for £8.33 - 55
Number of minutes Evening for £8.33 - 83
Number of minutes Weekends for £8.33 - 167
Total minutes 305

So in conclusion if you spend £25 a month on mobile calls it looks Ntl TW is costing you too much. It looses out on all the time periods.
Vonage is a little better but not as good as Ntl TU24 or BT/1899

Out of the two left it all depends on whether you spend more time on the phone calling mobiles in the evenings or at weekends/daytime. If you call in the evenings then you are better off with the TU24 for mobiles or if weekends or day times are your calling time for mobiles then BT/1899 is the answer.

One thing to point out here though is you've saved £17.01 with Vonage on your land line calls that you could use towards mobile calls. This would, if split equally again between the three time periods give you another 208 minutes bringing it up to 513 over all. If you make over 406 minutes of calls or more then Vonage is again the winner

If you're wanting to keep the £17.01 as a saving then that's fine and in that case you will get less mobile calls for less money.

One other thing to note with the mobile calls. I've left our the call connection cost so the more calls you make with your minutes the less minutes you get. With BT/1899 the call connection fee is 3ppc, Ntl it's 6ppc and free with Vonage.

Overall Vonage comes out tops on land line calls with BT/1899 and TU24 in joint second depending on the number of calls you make. 466 lineline calls a month or less then BT/1899 is the way to go, the less calls you make the more you save.

Mobiles, well if you make lots and want to use your £17.01 saving then Vonage is also the way to go you get the most minutes for the total £50.

If you don't make as many then again BT/1899 and TU24 come in joint second depending on when you make the calls.

Overall TW is not worth taking over Vonage or BT/1899 for land line and is the worst package for mobiles. My advice would be dump it for one of the two above.

Oh and one last think, these figures all change if you haven't got a cable BB connection to plug your VOIP device into as with ADSL you still have to pay BT the £11 a month for the line so 1899 comes out the clear winner over everyone.

I hope this now shows those of you that think Ntl's phone offerings are good that they really don't stack up. That's jsut on these figures, we're not even getting into caller ID, voicemail emails or free diverting when your phoneline is down.


*Bold denotes the prices of identical packages for call costs but not price.
** You have to redial after 60 min or you are charged 3ppm.
***Mean average prices over all networks - prices vary depending on what network you call.

---------- Post added at 18:32 ---------- Previous post was at 18:30 ----------

Originally Posted by opelfruitcase

its not down to the call costs, but the kind of/amount of free minutes that you have to use each month.

Then the breakdown above should convince you that you get less "inclusive" minutes with Ntl than others.

[banjo]

Thank you Shaun, that is brilliant, it will take me some time to digest, but loads of good information

[opelfruitcase]

Originally Posted by Swipe

I've noticed on my bill that I pay an extra £2 for Talk Unlimited Local (unlimited local calls, evenings and weekends). On my latest bill this has been charged in advance for the month of October (1st - 31st) but I can't find anything about it on the NTL website. This was an offer that was awarded to me as part of some deal by retentions. Will I still be eligible for this as it has still been included on my bill?

You'll still keep your talk unlimited local if you have it on there - but keeping it on there does mean that any national calls evenings and weekends will now go up to the 3p.

[AntiSilence]

Thats ok, I don't phone national numbers very often so I'm not willing to cough up for a more expensive plan.

[banjo]

andTalk Unlimited
£16.50 per month
Unlimited UK National and local calls every evening and weekend.

Includes your line rental
Calls to mobiles from 2p a minute
Daytime national calls just 3p a minute
FREE International Call Plan worth £2 a month, saving up to 75% compared to BT Together* to 30 top destinations.


If I am reading this correctly then national calls are free at weekends and evenings ?

Am I right ?

[opelfruitcase]

Originally Posted by banjo

andTalk Unlimited
£16.50 per month
Unlimited UK National and local calls every evening and weekend.

Includes your line rental
Calls to mobiles from 2p a minute
Daytime national calls just 3p a minute
FREE International Call Plan worth £2 a month, saving up to 75% compared to BT Together* to 30 top destinations.


If I am reading this correctly then national calls are free at weekends and evenings ?

Am I right ?

Pretty much - although the Talk Unlimited doesn't include the international call plan any more - you have to shell out a further £1.50 for that.

[breamhunter]

Do I have to accept these new charges? I`m not happy with them so can I cancel the Phone and TV?

Where do I stand? I`ve had Phone for nearly two years but took out a Tv Package about 8 months ago?

Cheers

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by breamhunter

Do I have to accept these new charges? I`m not happy with them so can I cancel the Phone and TV?

Where do I stand? I`ve had Phone for nearly two years but took out a Tv Package about 8 months ago?

Cheers

You can cancel any service that a company increases the prices on within 30 days of the increase. In this instance you cant cancel the TV as the last increase was more than 30 days ago. The phone, yes you can from the date of the new prices.

---------- Post added at 01:07 ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 ----------

Originally Posted by opelfruitcase

Pretty much - although the Talk Unlimited doesn't include the international call plan any more - you have to shell out a further £1.50 for that.

I'm not seeing calls to mobiles from 2ppm for any package on the telco tarrif unless you pay an additional £2 a month.

[breamhunter]

[quote=Shaun;34142463]You can cancel any service that a company increases the prices on within 30 days of the increase. In this instance you cant cancel the TV as the last increase was more than 30 days ago. The phone, yes you can from the date of the new prices.

But wont I still be paying line rental with my TV package?

[Shaun]

No I think Ntl now let you have the DTV without the phone.

[opelfruitcase]

Nope - your only in an initial 12 month contract with the services you took out at the point of opening your account. In other words, unless you were advised that you would have a new contract for your dtv service then you can cancel add services with 30 days notice.

What I would do though, rather than ring up and ask to cancel is to see what customer services can sort out for you first - they should check your calls to advise you on the best package for you. If the best package for your needs comes to more than they're offering it to you for, then speak to retentions.

[RamJet]

Originally Posted by banjo

Thank you Shaun, that is brilliant, it will take me some time to digest, but loads of good information

and referring to the previous excellent post by Saun - is it not the case that if you hardly make any calls on your landline (most people use their cellphones for phone calls now) then the deal with NTL is :-

1. free phone line

2. calls at 3p per min

therefor if I only make 60 mins calls permonth its just cost me £1.80 which is cheaper than all the others and cheaper than Vonage at £7.99 permonth

or have I got it wrong ?

RJ