Cancelation charges

[Davey2006]

went to cab and they said put evrything in writing whitch i will do and the cable forum contact has been talking to me and said we have reached deadlock refered me to oftello so i contact them and they said as the 12 weeks are not up yet i need a letter of deadlock from ntl , phone up ask for the letter and i get Oh sorry cant have that 12 weeks have mnot passed ..


U refered me to them urgggg.


BEst address to write to would be helpfully anybody?

[popper]

you didnt say how long your contract had to run btw ?

i found this SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST FOR COMMUNICATIONS DATA its got addresses in there , i wouldnt sent the SARS though as it might tigh up the data conroller in knots for a few weeks lol
http://www.privacyinternational.org/...e/sar_isp.html

12 weeks to even begin sorting it out, thats outragous, you could have sent an LBA,filling in an N1 county court order,placed an injunction, had it served,and probably been sorted by then, you would probably even had time to cc the OFT http://www.oft.gov.uk/Search+Results
and had them initiate an investigation and perhaps even got them to get an undertaking from NTL:tw to not to profit from unfair terms.

just as OFT will seek a court injunction to prevent their continued use Using the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1994, so can you or anyone.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+rel...8/PN+48-98.htm

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Rob C

I mention his name and he appears

Is this cited as a specific example of an unfair term that if the customer moves house before the end of his / her minimum contract term, they should be let off the rest of the contract?

Hi Rob,

Yes.

Schedule 2 1.(c) making an agreement binding on the consumer whereas provision of services by the seller or supplier is subject to a condition whose realisation depends on his own will alone;

If NTL can't provide services because they decided not to service an area then the consumer is not at fault.

[MovedGoalPosts]

So yep the area is not serviced, and the is a weakness on the cableco's part.

But it isn't ntl's fault that the customer is moving before the contract minimum term.

On that basis ntl only partly fail the above clause.

[Davey2006]

I have 5 months to run on my contract so was with tthem for a fair bit also when i could not get ntl cable i got virgin net owned by ntl so i still used ntl just a diffrent part of the same firm,

[Fingy]

Davey2006... I think that you may find if you are able to phone up and give your virgin account details the charge may not be held... no guarantees but I think it may swing things.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Rob C

So yep the area is not serviced, and the is a weakness on the cableco's part.

But it isn't ntl's fault that the customer is moving before the contract minimum term.

On that basis ntl only partly fail the above clause.

NTL fail totally under the above clause in that they are the service provider.

What I quoted above was only one element of the "unfair terms" legislation. There are others which apply equally - should the OP wish to research them.

NTL are neither estate agents nor landlords. As such they have no right to determine, restrict, or attempt to restrict someones right to elect to move address. If you (the OP) wanted to be truly pedantic you could point out the fact that there is nothing in the T&C's that says a customer must live at a particular address and not move house.

The services, according to the T&C's, are provided to a particular address and there is no mention anywhere that customers may not move house / address. Moving address does not, therefore, constitute a part of or breach of the contract on your part. If you are still keen to receive the services but they cannot supply them than they are in breach of the contract, not you. Again the OP would need to research this.

Do they also do "student deals" for term time students? Assuming they do then if they can facilitate contract terms which have negotiable timeframes outside of the oft referred 12 month contract on the basis of a temporary occupancy one would have to question why they can't waive the remainder of any 12 month contact where occupancy of a particular address is the issue.

The key is in the word "may". If someone were to stick to their guns and cite consumer contract law I suspect, once NTL determined that they were serious and aware of their rights, that NTL would be very reticent to try and force the issue.


*Trust that bitch to butt in with a one sentence sensible answer!!

[Fingy]

Just because I'm not a gasbag and quoting all this fancy brainy stuff

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

If someone were to stick to their guns and cite consumer contract law I suspect, once NTL determined that they were serious and aware of their rights, that NTL would be very reticent to try and force the issue.

Has anyone, as far as you are aware, forced this issue and gone to court over it?

[popper]

Originally Posted by Davey2006

went to cab and they said put evrything in writing whitch i will do and the cable forum contact has been talking to me and said we have reached deadlock refered me to oftello so i contact them and they said as the 12 weeks are not up yet i need a letter of deadlock from ntl , phone up ask for the letter and i get Oh sorry cant have that 12 weeks have mnot passed ..


U refered me to them urgggg.
best address to write to would be helpful anybody?

it took a little looking as it is not linked off the standard ntlworld page, but in part it says this (its OTELO btw)

http://www.home.ntl.com/content/ebiz.../b3365_cop.pdf
NTL Code of Practice

"16. Dispute Resolution –
the Telecoms Ombudsman
OTELO
16.1 What is Dispute Resolution?
Because legal actions can be lengthy and expensive, ntl
offers a straight forward alternative to court action in
the form of a dispute resolution process for most claims
relating to services covered by this Code.

This is done through the Office of the
Telecommunications Ombudsman, known as
OTELO.

If you have a claim that may be legally enforceable, you may wish to seek your remedy against ntl through the courts or choose to resolve it through the OTELO dispute resolution process.

Dispute Resolution involves the use of an Ombudsman who is independent of ntl.

The service is free to consumers.

Otelo investigates customers’
complaints about communication services."

http://www.home.ntl.com/page/terms

it would seem the NTL:tw othered OTELO isnt really a werthwhile or indeed an effective option other that to give NTL:tw far more time than any court or even a DPA notice....

its also rather misleading (after reading up on CAG) to say "legal actions can be lengthy and expensive" given most people will/can use the N1 form and go through the small claims (upto £5000), its almost as if NTL:tw are trying to put you off the real courts !, for instance if your on a low income it might not cost anything (after filling in a simple court form) other than a few stamps and price of recorded delivery letter.

it would appear best not to even waste your time with that OTELO option and just take the direct route, you have asked over on
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/
i assume ?.

it might be fun to start a spot the unfair terms thread game

(yes i know stuart, but its a related comment i cant let it pass without comment, it needs telling)
OB made me giggle when she said

Of course there's a cost - even if the property was alrteady cabled, and the cost of sending an engineer out to your house to complete the end of the install is present, the hardware, the manhours it takes to administer your account etc etc etc. There is a cost to EVERY install.

do you still work for NTL:tw OB?, you said elswere, you write these T&C's day in ,day out, which T&C did you have a hand in btw,your personal comment as regards NTL:tw costs and hence these are passed down to the users in the end, allow for the the likes of ntl contracted agents Qnet http://www.click2qnet.com and how they are being sent out to the users homes by NTL:tw Credit Control to disconnect fully payed up users by removing the cable spitter in the outside box of the house,and before knocking and asking the user if in fact the account is infact unpayed.

after finding out the BB was down, not hard as i was posting here at the time,after the usual what the F*&*&* are you doing mate, and he told me he's from NTL:tw and been sent to recover box etc,
i asked why he didnt ring my NTL:tw phonline to confirm what he was about to do and enquire as to weather i was infact in arrears etc, he tells me he rang my mobile, he couldnt give me the mobile No he had just rang though, funny that as i dont have a mobile and even if i did i woudnt give it to NTL:tw,he did then ring NTL:tw credit control and they confirm i am infact NOT in arrears but in CREDIT,so he can put back the splitter.

i asked how much they get per job, he replyed £150 , we have a talk about wasting users time, taking away service without confirmation and so on, i asked so your firm is getting £150 per job so now they have lost time and the cost of this job?, hes reply ohh no we will book it as 2 jobs, once for comeing out and removing the splitter and again as re-fittiing it, as credit control said i could put it back........

so the crux of it is, even though the OP and others are being told theres always a cost to it, it is infact the
NTL:tw staff and agents of them that is infact costing far in excess of any cost anyone might assign to the users.

to put into perspective, i beleave the standard callout charge for fitting or moveing a phone socket (far more work than the above)is £25., the user not being in when an NTL:tw turns up at a booked time is £10.

No, sadly, there are some unscrupulous buggers out there that just want to get you connected and get their commision. If they told you you had to pay for the full 12 months regardless, would you have signed up? My feeling is NO, and I can almost guarantee that was probably the salespersons feeling too.

it doesnt matter, they are emplyees and agents of NTL:tw so not our problem or any official excuse....
if an employee or and agent of theirs makes an agreement then its binding to NTL:tw under the T&Cs just like the user is bound to the T&Cs, unless their unlawful, and you wouldnt want to imply NTL:tw are knowingly ignoring the agreements as they think they are unlawful in their opinion....

after re-reading the ntl contracted agents Qnet you might think its a conman, WRONG, i can confirm for myself that infact that call he made is showing on the CS screens system as being made, so it is an official sanctioned agent and action.

thanks and respects to the new 3 months recrute Cris in CS for spending the time and entering all relevent facts about my case onto the notes system and chaising up not one, but 4 seperate, but linked problems coursed by some NTL:tw employed Credit Control person or people, and even confirming they(CC) had placed a £150 charge on my account without caurse, and he had now removed that and placed a note telling the next operator all about it incase of problems later (i know there will be, even after his great help, and thats no reflection on him or his work, just so thats clear).

[popper]

as a side note, i wonder how many people are coming home and finding their payed up BB is disconnected and having to wait 3 days+ to have the guy come back and reconnect?, thats what the Qnet guy said, after 3days+ ring NTL:tw to get it reconnected...

[LixeL]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

At least some people are getting disconnected. I've been trying for months to get disconnected and each time I ring CS they tell me a different one of the services are still connected each time. Yesterday it was broadband still connected.

Why would anyone want to reconnect to NTL once they have cut you off? Just use the opportunity to move to a company that do reply to letters or emails and dont tell blatant lies every time you talk to them.