Legal Action Against NTL

[Okonski]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Template letters are all very well but you can never be 100% sure who (if anyone) will read them. This site promises a resolution.

I think you misunderstand what a template letter does? It provides the precise wording required to comply with giving a supplier diue notice prior to raising court proceedings. It's called a 'Letter Before Action'. Who reads it doesn't matter, as once served on the company HQ the clock has started.

Sure there are times when an informal approach might resolve an issue, but there's no guarantee. In my own case ntl weren't interested in an informal resolution to my problem, my service was cut off and my details passed to a debt collection agency (all unjustified). Why should they benefit from goodwill on one side, when they're so quick to rubbish a custoimer of 14 years standing?

The ending of Responsetek is a case in point. If thery want to play hard-ball and fine loyal customers for choosing to pay the way that suits them best, or pay a few days late, or illegally charge £20 for reconnecting services, they deserve all they get - and a consumer site like the one referred to earlier provides consumers with the firepower to make them sit up and listen.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Okonski

Sure there are times when an informal approach might resolve an issue, but there's no guarantee.

There isn't?

[Okonski]

Originally Posted by Russ D

There isn't?

Absolutely, This forum - useful as it is - has absolutely no legal standing within the ntl business plan. As I have discovered staff members of the company who are members of this forum take it upon themselves to assist those as and when they can. Whilst I and many others are delighted that they take this positive approach, as mentioned in an earlier posting, this is no alternative to the 99% of other ntl customers unware of this siter, and as many staff members point out, they provide this service under their own responsibility.

If my rights have been infringed, the court action appears to be the only redress against the company, a thread of unofficial emails would not be accepted, and it would be folly to pretend otherwise.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Okonski

Absolutely, This forum - useful as it is - has absolutely no legal standing within the ntl business plan. As I have discovered staff members of the company who are members of this forum take it upon themselves to assist those as and when they can. Whilst I and many others are delighted that they take this positive approach, as mentioned in an earlier posting, this is no alternative to the 99% of other ntl customers unware of this siter, and as many staff members point out, they provide this service under their own responsibility.

So what would you say if I guaranteed a resolution to anyone who has an issue and asks us to intervene?

[Okonski]

Originally Posted by Russ D

So what would you say if I guaranteed a resolution to anyone who has an issue and asks us to intervene?

I'd say you were being well-meaning, but unable to provide a valid assurance that the matter could be resolved to your complainant's satisfaction, or for that matter, that the route taken to such resolution was viewed as anything other than a 'back door' to existing proceedures. As noted earlier, if Responsetek was meant to provide this on a public basis - it failed.

Here's an issue I'd like you ro resolve. If I attrempt to raise a CS or Faults issue, the NTL website disregards my approach and asks me to make a phone call. Since I can deal with BT on all these matters by email, I fail to see why ntl is still dragging its heels. I remember we even had a View My Bill function that was eventually removed, yet promises that a similar but better interface would replace it - nothing ever happened.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Okonski

I remember we even had a View My Bill function that was eventually removed, yet promises that a similar but better interface would replace it - nothing ever happened.

I remember a certain "hell" site being shut down and assurances of the same. Remember the "community" site anyone?

*I think I just laughed so hard I nearly pee'd a little!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Okonski

I'd say you were being well-meaning, but unable to provide a valid assurance that the matter could be resolved to your complainant's satisfaction, or for that matter, that the route taken to such resolution was viewed as anything other than a 'back door' to existing proceedures. As noted earlier, if Responsetek was meant to provide this on a public basis - it failed.

OK then - I am guaranteeing a resolution to any issues where ntl have messed up. Approach me via PM and I'll pass on any issues.

[HughesJ]

To be honest, from following this site for the last couple of weeks (following my own NTL nightmare) it seems that when members of the cable forum team get involved things are resolved quite quickly. So I'm inclined to go with Russ D and his team.

I'll get back to you when my own NTL dispute is resolved (or not) then we'll see which side of the fence I'm on - fingers crossed.

J

[Bengie]

I have commented on this subject at some time in the past and my views are still the same.
Okonski is not saying that what you do is not a good thing and that you cannot resolve problems, we know you can and it is very admirable helping people who are having problems, but it does not address the route cause of the problem ie NTL, and will do nothing to get the company to buck up their customer relations and do as the name suggests.
Okonski also has a problem to be sorted and has asked that you try and sort out the reason that NTL will not enter into an email complaints and resolution conversation as BT does.
There is one very simple answer to this - if NTL was to put anything in writing then they wouldn't be able to claim that there is nothing on the record and tell you that you did not in fact ask to cancel etc and without the proof they will continue in their misguided ways.
It is not just about resolving an issue, it it more about getting the company to take their responsibility seriously and resolve the matter in a fair and timely manner.
If my car returned from the garage with a problem associated with the reason it was taken to them, I wouldn't want the man next door to fix it for me even though that would be the quickest way of doing things, I would want the garage to fix it as it is their fault and they caused it.

[HughesJ]

well in that case, is the OFT the way to go?

I can't help feeling that they <ISPs in general> have us all over a barrel.

J

Originally Posted by Bengie

I have commented on this subject at some time in the past and my views are still the same.
Okonski is not saying that what you do is not a good thing and that you cannot resolve problems, we know you can and it is very admirable helping people who are having problems, but it does not address the route cause of the problem ie NTL, and will do nothing to get the company to buck up their customer relations and do as the name suggests.
Okonski also has a problem to be sorted and has asked that you try and sort out the reason that NTL will not enter into an email complaints and resolution conversation as BT does.
There is one very simple answer to this - if NTL was to put anything in writing then they wouldn't be able to claim that there is nothing on the record and tell you that you did not in fact ask to cancel etc and without the proof they will continue in their misguided ways.
It is not just about resolving an issue, it it more about getting the company to take their responsibility seriously and resolve the matter in a fair and timely manner.
If my car returned from the garage with a problem associated with the reason it was taken to them, I wouldn't want the man next door to fix it for me even though that would be the quickest way of doing things, I would want the garage to fix it as it is their fault and they caused it.

As nice as it is for russ and other people on here to offer to negotiate that is not the answer.
Tell me russ what if a persons complaint was about some shoddy workmanship, or about bad attitude from a csa, would the resolution to the complaint involve that member of staff being shown the door to the dole queue? because to be honest this is the only way ntl is going to improve its reputation.
You can if you will find out why ntl do not get involved in email correspondence, because I have a feeling its because they do not want the customer to have something in black and white that can then be used against them should the need arise.
Why are ntl so special that the email option is not there? as the poster pointed out, you are asked to call them, that is logical given the money ntl are now creaming from disgruntled customers.
The other day I had a query regarding my account, I emailed bt my question, I received 5 minutes later an automated response, then the following day I had a full answer to my question that satisfied me.
Just to round off, a message to ntl, if you can email you should

[Russ]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Tell me russ what if a persons complaint was about some shoddy workmanship, or about bad attitude from a csa, would the resolution to the complaint involve that member of staff being shown the door to the dole queue?

I don't know what ntl's stance is on this - and I doubt they'd tell us anyway - if it was the employee's first 'offence' then I wouldn't agree that sacking them is the best procedure but if it was one of many such complaints then perhaps that's something they look at.

Originally Posted by Russ D

I don't know what ntl's stance is on this - and I doubt they'd tell us anyway - if it was the employee's first 'offence' then I wouldn't agree that sacking them is the best procedure but if it was one of many such complaints then perhaps that's something they look at.

I am not suggesting that on a first time offence sacking someone, we can all have a bad hair day
There seems to be no accountability on the part of the csa, there have been stories where conversations between customers and ntl have not been logged, why would this happen? conspiracy theorists will have their opinion I put it down to bad training and managers not doing their jobs.
So what is the stance from ntl about email correspondence russ? why will they not communicate through email?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

So what is the stance from ntl about email correspondence russ? why will they not communicate through email?

I've never asked - but if you put your enquiry to me via PM as if you were asking ntl directly and I'll pass it on. Can't promise you'll get what you want but at least it'll be a direct answer.

[Okonski]

I must admit, forums like this and NTLHell do provide a useful additional method of problem resolution, and the world would be a much sadder place without them. That said, as an NTL customer, my bargaining power is considerably increased if I have an official paper trail that can be used to prove the timeline of a problem. Just as CS staff log details of what transpired during a voice call, I do exactly the same thing (using Outlook). I shouldn't have to keep trying to speak to a staff member who agrees that I've been treated badly, and I've lost count of the number of times an unresponsive exchange has been resolved simply by calling straight back and speaking to someone else. That's not thie issue - it is when error is compounded by error and your credit record is being wrung out to dry, only by dealing with the Manchester-based 'Resolutioin Team' can you ensure your efforts are being taken seriously and staff there have higher limits of providing financial compensation. My own issue was resolved after sending a 'Letter Before Action', and I received a benefit in kind of £160 for my trouble, inconvenience and the unwarranted removal of service for 3 days (in which EVERYTHING had been blocked, BB, phone and TV).

With firms like NTL being quick to fine consumers for the slightest transgretions, it is they who established the culture of customers not simply wanting their problem resolved, but by receiving due compensation for their error. Resolutions provided by sites like these may indeed resolve the original problem because at last, someone is taking an interest - however there is rarely an automatic compensatory payment made. With the customer usually happy his issue has been finally resolved, any further recompence is usually forgotten about in a rush of euphoria. That ended for me 2 years ago, if my services disappear through no fault of my own - excluting network faults - I've established that £50 per day for service removal of Phone, TV and BB is not an unreasonable amount. My NTL negotiator calculated the actual loss as £2.80 per day and said he would be prepared to pay this. I said this did not cover the true cost of having to finf an alternative Internet connection, using my mobile for calls instead of the landline, and the grief from the missus because of the blank screen. My argument won through, and the next stage in negotiations was how those costs would be recouped. With a cap on the maximum amount that could be applied (based on his seniority) we agreed on a £50 goodwill rebate to the account, £16 for non-DDM overpayments, and a further £120 in savings due to BB discounts and package changes.

If you feel you are not being treated well as a customer, a little bit of effort on your part can resolve issues and provide compensation that would otherwise be closed to you. If you get something wrong, you'll be made to pay, there's notning wrong in ensuring when the boot is on the other foot, you pursue it just as enthusiastically as they do.