[Now Official] More ntl speed changes - Page 33

08-11-2004, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M

Since several people have mentioned it, I have added the vote option for staying as you are.

Hmm, 1% so far...

So I am not the only on that thinks that this is a good opportunity then....

Runs for cover....

DVS · 08-11-2004, 00:59

Granted it would take a LOT of spam to use 5GB a month but it is theoretically possible (yes I know everything works in theory and we should all move there

)

The other points are very valid though. Virus attacks which install backdoors etc. have been problems in the past. Even the probing from some of the viruses caused serious net problems and generated huge amounts of traffic. Again the probing would not be enough to cause cap overage in it's own right but at the same time the traffic would be attributed to a users monthly total. The users will still be picking up the tab for unsolicited traffic.

ian@huth · 08-11-2004, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVS

But does that not worry people? I've used the net for years and have payed serious sums for my usage. I don't want to return to that. Do you?

I too have paid very serious sums for my usage over the years. Nobody is suggesting that these days will return. What we have been used to in the last few years though is ISPs offering very cheap and quite often below cost internet connections in order to win market share. When broadband was first launched it was quite easy to offer unlimited services as there were not enough users to make an impact on usage. Reality must come into the market at some stage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVS

But will they? or will they simply bolster their profits?

These are marketing decisions at the end of the day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVS

But broadband is not making a loss know so these changes aren't to return to a profitable operation but simply suck more profit out of an already profitable solution.

How do you know that broadband is not making a loss? Do you know how much ISPs in general and NTL in particular are spending on the network at the moment? If you look at the poll at the top of this thread you can work out the gain or loss in revenue that NTL will achieve if this sample is representative of the customer base as a whole. Without doing any sums you can see at a glance that it would lose revenue.

DVS · 08-11-2004, 01:11

I work in the internet industry so I'm reasonably in the know. I've also spoken to highup NTL insiders who have stated the profitable nature of their broadband provisioning. That's one of the reasons this 'cap' bugs me so much.

greencreeper · 08-11-2004, 01:13

I'm not sure what you're all talking about

There's a vague "news" item on the front page that presents a lot of maybes and no hard facts, particularly prices. Someone PM when the details are released, then I will decide whether to move up, down or stay put. I'm not paying more than ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£20 a month though - these days I only use the Net between 18:00 and 00:00

Hans Gruber · 08-11-2004, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Let's get a few things clear:

We live in the UK not Sweden or Japan.

Don't use the old selective reading trick, it was quite clear I was making the point we don't live in Australia, by saying look at the other end of the spectrum. I know we live in UK and I know we work by a different model.

Quote:

Nobody is forcing anyone to remain a NTL customer.

Nobody is saying they are.

Quote:

The majority of members on here think that the new deal from NTL is a fantastic deal.

People realise this, just because not everyone is the 'majority' doesn't mean our opinions become void. We live in a democracy you know.

Quote:

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see the way that broadband charging is moving in the UK and it isn't to an unlimited "all you can eat" system.

Yes, there are companies fighting for market share that are offering unlimited use at the moment, but how long will this last? If all the bandwidth hoggers move to these then it won't be long before they are forced to take action and enforce restrictions. The only alternative for them is to let unlimited downloads slow their network to a crawl.

Technology will advance and customers will require more bandwidth in the future but the same technological advances will allow ISPs to provide this extra bandwidth.

It is a complete myth that heavy users slow down everyone else on the network. In the 3 years I have had broadband from NTL I have not once not been able to download at full speed. Maybe some areas are overloaded, but that is NTL's problem, not the customers in the areas with plenty of bandwidth to spare.

ProfPete · 08-11-2004, 01:15

Maybe now would be a good time to start talking about anarchic community networks??

Florence · 08-11-2004, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfPete

Maybe now would be a good time to start talking about anarchic community networks??

Perhaps but I have to say some are very selfish.. Just coz they have always had full speed some of us havent.

I know at times I can be heavy user but nothing in the three figures and those that dodownlaod hundreds of gigs a month are not paying the fair share for what they use of the network and perhaps they should pay per gig they download.

ian@huth · 08-11-2004, 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

It is a complete myth that heavy users slow down everyone else on the network. In the 3 years I have had broadband from NTL I have not once not been able to download at full speed. Maybe some areas are overloaded, but that is NTL's problem, not the customers in the areas with plenty of bandwidth to spare.

It is a hard mathematical and physical fact that heavy users can slow other users down. Unless you are just playin with words when you say "everyone else on the network". You may have been lucky and always been able to download at full speed, but not everyone can claim this. Whether an area is overloaded or not is a matter of definition. Just because a customer cannot download at full speed all the time doesn't mean the area is overloaded. It is just contention taking its toll.

Hans Gruber · 08-11-2004, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianathuth

It is a hard mathematical and physical fact that heavy users can slow other users down. Unless you are just playin with words when you say "everyone else on the network". You may have been lucky and always been able to download at full speed, but not everyone can claim this. Whether an area is overloaded or not is a matter of definition. Just because a customer cannot download at full speed all the time doesn't mean the area is overloaded. It is just contention taking its toll.

It's hardly a play on words, you said the "network would slow to a crawl". I am yet to experience this, or know anyone else who has. Yet it comes up a lot in forums. Possibly a tactic used to get the lighter users to believe the heavier users are too blame for NTL's lacking network? Purely speculation, of course.

ian@huth · 08-11-2004, 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

It's hardly a play on words, you said the "network would slow to a crawl". I am yet to experience this, or know anyone else who has. Yet it comes up a lot in forums. Possibly a tactic used to get the lighter users to believe the heavier users are too blame for NTL's lacking network? Purely speculation, of course.

If you read carefully the article that you quoted part of you will see that I said "Yes, there are companies fighting for market share that are offering unlimited use at the moment, but how long will this last? If all the bandwidth hoggers move to these then it won't be long before they are forced to take action and enforce restrictions. The only alternative for them is to let unlimited downloads slow their network to a crawl." Think about this for a moment. If all NTL users on a specific UBR were to move to the highest tier and tried to max their connections out, what do you think would happen and what do you think NTL should do?

DVS · 08-11-2004, 01:49

Lets not allow this to degenerate into a mud slinging match. Some users have suffered degradation of their connections. I was one of them. In my case though it wasn't related to other users but simply a misbehaving UBR.

Hans Gruber · 08-11-2004, 01:59

I've expressed my opinion, if the cap is enforced, I will leave NTL. There's really nothing more to it, it's not a bad thing, but it will just be time to move on. Until all ISPs do go PAYG there's really nothing to worry about. The new tiers are good for some and bad for others. But there are alternatives, yes I would rather not have the hassle of signing up for a new ISP and buying a DSL modem, but if that's the way it has to be, that's the way it will be.

I really don't understand why corporations have a big fan bases, none of them are out to please customers, but to make money. Including the ones still offering unlimited access, they must have a business plan that works.

ian@huth · 08-11-2004, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

I've expressed my opinion, if the cap is enforced, I will leave NTL. There's really nothing more to it, it's not a bad thing, but it will just be time to move on. Until all ISPs do go PAYG there's really nothing to worry about. The new tiers are good for some and bad for others. But there are alternatives, yes I would rather not have the hassle of signing up for a new ISP and buying a DSL modem, but if that's the way it has to be, that's the way it will be.

I really don't understand why corporations have a big fan bases, none of them are out to please customers, but to make money. Including the ones still offering unlimited access, they must have a business plan that works.

Probably the best idea is to wait and see how this works out, in particular what will happen if you exceed the "cap". If you then think that it is not for you the look around, find one that appears to be what you want and pay whatever it may cost for you to transfer.

Whilst corporations are out to make money, some of them realise that you can make more by pleasing customers. You do not have to be a fan of a company to recognise a good deal. ISPs that are still offering unlimited access may or may not be making any money but may be subsidising the service to gain market share. There is a limit to how long this can go on.

thephenom · 08-11-2004, 02:35

Jeez,

I was thinking, damn thats nice of NTL to do that. Then realized it's NTL here, there has to be a catch. I'd rather stick to what i have now and have no download limit, than upgrade and have a download limit. If i upgrade i'll only reach my download limit quicker

. This upgrade will be doing nothing for me personally. I hope they give us the choice of sticking with what we have at the moment and upgrading.

Have to laugh though,
1mbit - 5GB cap
2mbit - 30GB cap

If that happens there are going to be alot of ****ed customers. You can't have a 1mbit connection and have a download limit of 5GB. That's hillarious.

Ah well, can't wait for the official word !