[Merged] 2004 US Presidential Election - Page 14

Flubflow · 29-10-2004, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

There should be UN monitors across the whole country. Considering the US is supposed to be the Land of the Free and the very model of democracy, the US Presidential election system is bizarre ... even the Labour Party has been doing away with electoral colleges as a way of voting for things.

How can it be that a State's citizens vote 51-49 for one candidate, but that state's entire alloaction of electoral college votes go to one candidate? How can it be that when an Elector of a particular state gets to the College vote, he is under no obligation to vote for the candidate the citizens of his State chose, but can exercise his vote any way he likes? (According to a report on R4 Today this morning, one such Elector is threatening to vote Kerry at the Electoral College meeting, regardless of whether or not Kerry wins in his state).

Ironic isn't it. The US spearhead wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, trying to bring democracy in those places, yet they can't seem to manage to get it right in their own country.

ntluser · 29-10-2004, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Ironic isn't it. The US spearhead wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, trying to bring democracy in those places, yet they can't seem to manage to get it right in their own country.

I think it would be really ironic if the United Nations had to put in their own observers to ensure free elections in the USA.

It would certainly be highly embarrassing for the country that styles itself as "the land of the free". Maybe they meant "the land of the free-for-all."

iadom · 29-10-2004, 16:22

The US does not get the government it deserves, it gets the one it can afford.

Flubflow · 29-10-2004, 16:26

Have some fun with this:-
http://www.bushspeech.org/

Bifta · 29-10-2004, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

How would you know if Moore is a liar if you don't entertain his books or movies?

Because I'm capable of watching and reading the news.

Quote:

In terms of truth bending, Moore does no more than what most media does evry day but at least he is much more entertaining.

http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?...24779059990811

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://marccooper.typepad.com/marcco...nd_moore_.html

With such classic outbursts as

Quote:

"Every fact in the film is true. Absolutely every fact in the film is true. And anybody who says otherwise is committing an act of libel"

He should really make sure he's not talking a load of old waffle first....

punky · 29-10-2004, 16:30

Good thing it is just the 'evil republicans' that are doing it. I mean, extreme lefties wouldn't stoop so low...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=163464
http://www.epionline.org/news_detail.cfm?rid=33

In a race that has gotten out of control, both sides are trying to stop at nothing in order for them to get this election. I would also like to remind people the whole reason this all started was because of severe democrat voter fraud in Miami, which lead to the voter rolls being cleaned out in the first place.

For those who still insist that Bush stole the election:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...loridamain.htm
http://www.latimes.com/la-111201recount.story

Interesting also that democrats complain that the electoral college got Bush in, and so therefore must be dismantled, but they are saying the EC might get Kerry in this time, so I wonder if they'll still complain about it, especially given Bush has a 1% lead in the most recent polls.

Flubflow · 29-10-2004, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bifta

Because I'm capable of watching and reading the news.

http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?...24779059990811

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://marccooper.typepad.com/marcco...nd_moore_.html

So?
Like i said, He does no worse than the rest of the media.

Bifta · 29-10-2004, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

So?
Like i said, He does no worse than the rest of the media.

So? Just because he's as bad as the rest of the media doesn't stop him being someone who distorts facts and outright lies to sell books and films, i.e. people shouldn't be gullible enough to believe his version of the USA.

Flubflow · 29-10-2004, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bifta

So? Just because he's as bad as the rest of the media doesn't stop him being someone who distorts facts and outright lies to sell books and films, i.e. people shouldn't be gullible enough to believe his version of the USA.

Why single him out though? He represents a tiny proportion of factual media output yet you have seen fit to pitch him in the same sentence as Bush and, without any knowledge of his books or movies, to dismiss him completely.

punky · 29-10-2004, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Why single him out though? He represents a tiny proportion of factual media output yet you have seen fit to pitch him in the same sentence as Bush and, without any knowledge of his books or movies, to dismiss him completely.

Noone is singling him out, but why should he be exempt from criticism either? Because his message is 'good'? Well, that is what China always says about themselves.

It may seem like he is being singled out, but it is only because he is the biggest, and most profilic, so he would get most of pressure on him.

Bifta · 29-10-2004, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Why single him out though? He represents a tiny proportion of factual media output yet you have seen fit to pitch him in the same sentence as Bush and, without any knowledge of his books or movies, to dismiss him completely.

I don't need to read anything by Hans Christian Andersen to know it's a fairy tale.

Flubflow · 29-10-2004, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bifta

I don't need to read anything by Hans Christian Andersen to know it's a fairy tale.

That really is a pathetic response.

Flubflow · 29-10-2004, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

Noone is singling him out, but why should he be exempt from criticism either? Because his message is 'good'? Well, that is what China always says about themselves.

It may seem like he is being singled out, but it is only because he is the biggest, and most profilic, so he would get most of pressure on him.

Don't you have to know something of a person's work to be able to criticise it?
I'm all for critique. Popping you head up and saying "X" is a liar without any first hand experience of his work is not really critique.

Bifta · 29-10-2004, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

That really is a pathetic response.

No more pathetic than that.

I said I wouldn't entertain any of his work, I never said I hadn't, I've read "Dude, where's my country" that was more than enough tripe to read in a lifetime. I'm sorry that I (and others) can't declare the same sort of undying love for Moore that you obviously have, too bad though, deal with it.

punky · 29-10-2004, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Don't you have to know something of a person's work to be able to criticise it?
I'm all for critique. Popping you head up and saying "X" is a liar without any first hand experience of his work is not really critique.

People like David Kopel,David Hardy, Jason Clarke scrutinise every word he says/writes/videos.

I have watched Bowling, Fahrenheit, read most of SWM, but I don't think it matters. The people I mentioned above do the hard work so we don't have to. I never say blindly follow them though. Read both sides and make up your mind, like I do.