have you had religious experiances

[Russ]

We'll see

Originally posted by Russ D
Satan's plan is to pull us away from God's plan by any means neccessary and if that includes setting up another religion then so be it. It's perfectly feasible that these other religions do a LOT of good work for charity and are otherwise very nice people, but due to their nature of their beliefs they will never give their lives to God which ultimately is what Satan wants.

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but I *cannot* sit here and let a piece of sanctimonious nonsense like this go past!

What you are saying is "You must do must do it *this* way and this way *alone*, because, out of all the multitude of faiths and beliefs and billions of people out there *WE AND WE ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH* and if you don't do it the way we tell you, you're damned!"

That is the utmost *height* of arrogance and implies that the God you believe in has the attitude and behaviour of a *spoiled child*!

You claim to have the "one true answer", ignoring the fact that there are plenty of other religions out there who *also* claim to have exactly the same thing, yet you cannot see the logical conclusion that follows that if you say *they* are wrong, and they say *you* are wrong, possibly you're *both* wrong!

You sit there smug in your self-righteousness because you know *you're* ok and are quite content to damn everyone else. Forget Christian charity or forgiveness, if they don't do it the right way, they're stuffed.

Frankly I'd be happy if you wake up after you're dead to find that Mumbo Jumbo, God of the Congo is actually The One True God, but as far as I'm concerned, this world is it, it's not a rehearsal, so I'm going to make sure that I try to make people happy and not cause people unnecessary suffering instead of saying "well if you're suffering it's because God wants you to!"

Religion? You can keep it!

[Russ]

Very good Graham, I'm not sure if that was an attempt to wind me up but it certainly tickled me

What you are saying is "You must do must do it *this* way and this way *alone*, because, out of all the multitude of faiths and beliefs and billions of people out there *WE AND WE ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH* and if you don't do it the way we tell you, you're damned!"

Show me a faith which doesn't share this ideal.

That is the utmost *height* of arrogance and implies that the God you believe in has the attitude and behaviour of a *spoiled child*!

No no, what *would* be arrogance would be to criticise people for choosing other religions, for physically/verbally attacking followers of other faiths. Have I ever done this?

You claim to have the "one true answer", ignoring the fact that there are plenty of other religions out there who *also* claim to have exactly the same thing, yet you cannot see the logical conclusion that follows that if you say *they* are wrong, and they say *you* are wrong, possibly you're *both* wrong!

Of course I feel I have the "one true answer" as you call it, this has come from the many experiences I've had since becomming a Christian. Naturally if someone else thinks their own chosen path is also the "right way" then I'm going to disagree with them but I'd still have 100% respect for them and any comfort their beliefs bring them, just as I'd expect from you towards myself.

You sit there smug in your self-righteousness because you know *you're* ok and are quite content to damn everyone else.

Any particular need to get offensive with me? Any particular need to impose your beliefs on me? Go take them elsewhere my friend!

Frankly I'd be happy if you wake up after you're dead to find that Mumbo Jumbo, God of the Congo is actually The One True God, but as far as I'm concerned, this world is it, it's not a rehearsal, so I'm going to make sure that I try to make people happy and not cause people unnecessary suffering instead of saying "well if you're suffering it's because God wants you to!"

Thank you, I'm glad you think so highly of me.

Religion? You can keep it!

Thanks!! I will! But at the same time I won't get offensive or ram my beliefs down anyone's throat as you have done. I don't preach, convert or try to make others agree with me, I simply answer the questions people put to me. If individuals don't like my answers then maybe they should ask those who pose the questions to stop doing so.

If you wish to argue you can PM me or take it to MSN messenger. You don't have to agree with my faith, I'm not out to score converts but whatever you believe, that's between you and God.

[Ramrod]

If theres one thing I've learnt it's to not even try to argue religion with a true believer
There was the time I decided to get really picky with some Hare Krishna's and their beliefs. They wriggled and squirmed but wouldn't budge an inch, even though they were spouting absolute (imo) boll*cks

[kronas]

Originally posted by Ramrod
If theres one thing I've learnt it's to not even try to argue religion with a true believer
There was the time I decided to get really picky with some Hare Krishna's and their beliefs. They wriggled and squirmed but wouldn't budge an inch, even though they were spouting absolute (imo) boll*cks

but it makes a good discussion ramrod

[darkangel]

russ:if it's not to personal a question & u don't mind me asking what made u become a christian?

Originally posted by Russ D
I'm not out to score converts but whatever you believe, that's between you and God.

isn't that something christians are supposed to do?

[Dave Stones]

Originally posted by Ramrod
If theres one thing I've learnt it's to not even try to argue religion with a true believer
There was the time I decided to get really picky with some Hare Krishna's and their beliefs. They wriggled and squirmed but wouldn't budge an inch, even though they were spouting absolute (imo) boll*cks

we argued with jehovah's witnesses on many occasions... suppose it doesnt really apply as they are annoyances really arent they.

i know a fair few people who are beginning to look upon buddhism now though because they can have the peace and all that of a religion without having to worship a god as such. i still question it slightly but hey if it makes em happy they can do whatever they want...

after my RE lessons at school i also personally think buddhism has the best ideas etc but hey this is just me

isn't that something christians are supposed to do?

it was "preaching gods word" or something wasnt it? they thought it was right and all these tribal people on the weird little pacific islands were butchers etc cos of their culture so of course they were wrong. maybe im wrong i dunno about history etc all i know about is people getting eaten in fiji...

[Russ]

russ:if it's not to personal a question & u don't mind me asking what made u become a christian?

I was brought up as a Catholic but left the faith when I was 18 as I felt it was doing nothing for me. I still believed in God but somehow all the rules and regulation just didn't seem right for me. I always wanted to return to religion in some way and was just waiting for the right time.

In february of last year I met a student nurse from London who was a Christian and to cut a long story short, I knew this was the opportunity I was waiting for. I went along to her church which was very different to the catholic ways and I knew instantly that this was for me. I then became a Christian on august 26th last year and have not looked back since.

isn't that something christians are supposed to do?

Yes it is, and I kind of do it in my own way. Instead of going out and preaching (or as many people see it, hassling), I just make sure everyone knows I'm a Christian and if they want to know more, they can approach me to discuss it. That way I guess I could be seen as 'looking for converts' but they are coming to me, so no-one can accuse me of hassling them. Some people just don't wish to know and I'm leaving them well alone.

[Stuart]

Originally posted by Graham
I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but I *cannot* sit here and let a piece of sanctimonious nonsense like this go past!

What you are saying is "You must do must do it *this* way and this way *alone*, because, out of all the multitude of faiths and beliefs and billions of people out there *WE AND WE ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH* and if you don't do it the way we tell you, you're damned!"

Graham, while I personally don't agree with the idea of God and the various faiths all telling us we should live one way or another, we do all have the right to our beliefs.

I have discussions with Russ on religion in a few threads on here and nthw.com, and I can honestly say, I have never seen him try to convert anyone. When asked about his beliefs, he usually seems to answer that they are the right beliefs for him.

Originally posted by Russ D
Very good Graham, I'm not sure if that was an attempt to wind me up but it certainly tickled me

I'm interested to note that you will laugh at other people's opinions simply because they don't agree with you.

However that was not an attempted "wind up", that was a statement of my opinion. I can't help it if you don't like it.

*WE AND WE ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH* and if you don't do it the way we tell you, you're damned!"

Show me a faith which doesn't share this ideal.

Which rather goes to prove my point!

If you *all* claim to be right and you *all* say that everyone else is wrong, the logical conclusion is inescapable for anyone who is willing to open their mind.

No no, what *would* be arrogance would be to criticise people for choosing other religions, for physically/verbally attacking followers of other faiths. Have I ever done this?

Sorry, did I *completely* misread the following???:

"Satan's plan is to pull us away from God's plan by any means neccessary [...] due to their nature of their beliefs they will never give their lives to God which ultimately is what Satan wants"

You are *ATTACKING* every other religion and every other believer of those religions by saying that, because they're not doing it *your* way (which is, of course, "God's plan") they are doing *SATAN'S* work!!

if someone else thinks their own chosen path is also the "right way" then I'm going to disagree with them but I'd still have 100% respect for them

That's why you say they're doing Satan's work, is it? Just checking...

You sit there smug in your self-righteousness because you know *you're* ok and are quite content to damn everyone else.

Any particular need to get offensive with me? Any particular need to impose your beliefs on me? Go take them elsewhere my friend!

Offensive? ROFL!

I think your views and smug and self-righteous and I will say so as much as I want. I am not "imposing" that belief on you, I am telling you that is what I think of what you have said.

I will not "take them elsewhere", I will post them in here because I have every damn right to say them in here.

If you can't stand someone criticising your views, *don't* express them in a public forum where they are subject to the scrutiny of others!

Religion? You can keep it!

Thanks!! I will! But at the same time I won't get offensive or ram my beliefs down anyone's throat as you have done.

Ah, the sweet smell of hypocrisy!

You have been shoving your beliefs all over this forum for the last hundred or so messages, but when someone else expresses a different opinion, suddenly you want them to shut up!

Matthew 7:1-5

I don't preach, convert or try to make others agree with me

You just imply they're doing the devil's work. Nice of you...

If you wish to argue you can PM me or take it to MSN messenger.

No, I will post in a public forum because you are posting in a public forum. If you wish to take this discussion to PM or messenger or anywhere else, that's entirely your right, but whilst you post in public I will *reply* in public!

You don't have to agree with my faith

Gosh, thanks, that's so kind of you (that's sarcasm, by the way)

whatever you believe, that's between you and God.

Actually it's between me and my conscience if it's all the same with you.

Originally posted by scastle
[B]Graham, while I personally don't agree with the idea of God and the various faiths all telling us we should live one way or another, we do all have the right to our beliefs.

And I have *NEVER* said anywhere that he cannot or should not hold his beliefs!

However as I have said already and will keep saying, if he is going to express them in public I am going to question them in public.

That is, after all, what discussion forums are for, isn't it?

[Russ]

Which rather goes to prove my point!

If you *all* claim to be right and you *all* say that everyone else is wrong, the logical conclusion is inescapable for anyone who is willing to open their mind.

Simple then: don't get involved with religion.

Sorry, did I *completely* misread the following???:

"Satan's plan is to pull us away from God's plan by any means neccessary [...] due to their nature of their beliefs they will never give their lives to God which ultimately is what Satan wants"

You are *ATTACKING* every other religion and every other believer of those religions by saying that, because they're not doing it *your* way (which is, of course, "God's plan") they are doing *SATAN'S* work!!

No you did not misread it. I was asked a question and I gave the answer. No need to offensive just because you disagree.

Offensive? ROFL!

Yes. Your tone has been little short of sharpe AND offensive. There are plenty of people on this site who disagree with me yet fail to come at me with an 'attitude'.

I think your views and smug and self-righteous and I will say so as much as I want. I am not "imposing" that belief on you, I am telling you that is what I think of what you have said

Funny who no-one else on here seems to share your view. And you will tone down your attitude on this site. We may be relaxed but personal attacks are not tolerated. You are free to disagree with anything I do or say but there are mature *grown up* ways of doing it.

If you can't stand someone criticising your views, *don't* express them in a public forum where they are subject to the scrutiny of others!

I can take criticism from all angles, what I won't take is someone being offensive seemingly for the sake of it.

You have been shoving your beliefs all over this forum for the last hundred or so messages, but when someone else expresses a different opinion, suddenly you want them to shut up!

Oh really? Well have another little read through the thread. All I do is answer people's questions. You call that ramming my beliefs down people's throats? Well ask people such as Scastle and Darkangel to stop asking me questions.

You just imply they're doing the devil's work.

Yeah right whatever.

No, I will post in a public forum because you are posting in a public forum. If you wish to take this discussion to PM or messenger or anywhere else, that's entirely your right, but whilst you post in public I will *reply* in public!

I'm choked for you.

Gosh, thanks, that's so kind of you (that's sarcasm, by the way)

You're welcome.

Actually it's between me and my conscience if it's all the same with you.

So you do have one then.

However as I have said already and will keep saying, if he is going to express them in public I am going to question them in public.

Expressing my beliefs? No no, it's called "answering questions that people put to me".

Graham Graham, this is a discussion forum which thrives on people with opposing views on subjects. What makes this site a success (and it's predecessor) is that although debates can get heated, we respect each other's views. There may very well be a day where someone posts something which we will all disagree with but what we do is deal with it in a mature way, not resort to schoolground bickering.

[Ben]

Enough!!!!!

Thread Closed...