[Merged] Foxhunting Ban and the Commons Invasion

[punky]

I know hunting is a real divisive issue, but this is the way I feel about it.

I'm a live and let live kinda guy. I have never been hunting. I most probably never will. I doubt I could kill anything nice and fluffy, (although if it was coming to kill me I would). That said, I don't go round telling people what they can/can't/should/shouldn't do. So long as they aren't hurting anyone (human, that is), generally, i'll let people do what they want. Another just as valid example is, i'm not gay, and I doubt I ever will be. That doesn't mean I should go round telling gay people they shouldn't be gay.

Of course, that means everyone else should show me the same courtesy, and if I want to do something (like this time in Florida, i've really taken up target shooting), then noone else has the right to tell me what I can and can't do. Trouble is, they never do.

[greencreeper]

I wish they would get their terminology correct - hunting with hounds and hunting with dogs are two different things. The latter includes the use of dogs for the purposes of pest and vermin control and hunting by individuals for food (rather than recreation). Certainly if the use of dogs in pest control is banned, then we can look forward to some interesting problems - we're already seeing foxes in cities.

[bopdude]

Originally Posted by Russ D

I suppose once this is illegal perhaps those who want to carry on with killing foxes could instead try it in countries which allow it?

And how will that get rid of the problem, I can't speak for all fox hunting / hunters but we used to run a pheasant shoot near Penrith, we would stock the various pockets of woodland with poults and rear them in ' runs ' the fox's would spook the young uns and they would try to get through the mess fence, only thing is the only thing that would fit through was there heads, along comes mister fox and just bites off there heads. In this case, I really had no feelings for fox's as they were not hunting to eat but killing for killing's sake.

[zoombini]

I just hope that they don't expand this onto fishing next.

[Russ]

The protestors who were getting smacked up by the police, perhaps now they know how the fox feels...ah no, sorry, the protestors actually have a choice to walk away, don't they?

So once again our glorious government sticks it nose it where it doesn't belong. Give it another few years and we won't be able to open our front doors without something we do being declared illegal (unless of course you are a convicted thug, then you will be able to do as you like because of your "abused" background) ......

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by bopdude

And how will that get rid of the problem, I can't speak for all fox hunting / hunters but we used to run a pheasant shoot near Penrith, we would stock the various pockets of woodland with poults and rear them in ' runs ' the fox's would spook the young uns and they would try to get through the mess fence, only thing is the only thing that would fit through was there heads, along comes mister fox and just bites off there heads. In this case, I really had no feelings for fox's as they were not hunting to eat but killing for killing's sake.

I don't have a problem with people killing foxes (they are considered vermin after all). Assmuming it is done quickly and (as far as possible) humanely.

The thing I don't like about hunting is that the fox spends the last few hours of it's life terrified. The other thing I don't like is that the hounds on the hunt can actually become so wound up that they will rip any small animal that crosses their path to pieces (I have seen photos of this). Assuming you own a dog (I don't know if you do), how would you feel if you happened to be out walking the dog in the woods, and the dog was ripped to pieces by several hounds from a passing hunt?

Originally Posted by Paul M

So once again our glorious government sticks it nose it where it doesn't belong. Give it another few years and we won't be able to open our front doors without something we do being declared illegal (unless of course you are a convicted thug, then you will be able to do as you like because of your "abused" background) ......

Why shouldn't the government stick it's nose in to this? It's something a lot of voters feel quite strongly about (whether for or against). Why should the Government stand by and allow creulty to animals (even vermin such as foxes)?

[mrmassive]

It would be nice to see a Hunt goin on. To see the man who sits on his horse. Sounds the Bugle. "Tally Ho." The dogs give chance to Him. Ripp Him to shreds. Then I go up cut off his tail. Smear the blood on one of the dogs. Who's had his first kill and say to the bugle player. "Sorry ol chap. Mighty sporty what.You did well jolly good show ol chap." Then I would put my monicle back on.

There are two clear 'threads' to this discussion, the rights and wrongs of fox huntnig and the rights and wrongs of invading the House of Commons. Nevertheless, the two separate topics we've had going on over this keep tripping over each other so I've merged them.

[mrmassive]

Originally Posted by scastle

I don't have a problem with people killing foxes (they are considered vermin after all). Assmuming it is done quickly and (as far as possible) humanely.

The thing I don't like about hunting is that the fox spends the last few hours of it's life terrified. The other thing I don't like is that the hounds on the hunt can actually become so wound up that they will rip any small animal that crosses their path to pieces (I have seen photos of this). Assuming you own a dog (I don't know if you do), how would you feel if you happened to be out walking the dog in the woods, and the dog was ripped to pieces by several hounds from a passing hunt?


Why shouldn't the government stick it's nose in to this? It's something a lot of voters feel quite strongly about (whether for or against). Why should the Government stand by and allow creulty to animals (even vermin such as foxes)?

Since when have foxes been vermin. Surely the human race is vermin. As we have done much damage to the planet more than what foxs has done . We kill chickens , so do foxes! But we kill more than just that dont we??. As I have quoted in my last post previous to this. It would be nice to see the hunters become the hunted . When you have the advantage where is the sport in that.? Where is the challenge.? There isn't one simple as that. How manyn people are there that have even seen a fox besides a picture.? I start to think why?????????

The Farmers where I live banned the hunts on their land many years ago. Due to the damage that they do tramplin all over their land. Even dogs have been killed over this. It's a farmers right to kill dogs that stray on their land. I even know one farmer who did shoot some dogs on a hunt and I was one of the hands that blasted them. Legally of course

I've a better idea.It's also much more of a challenge than hunting foxes.

It's allowing licensed hunting of hunt saboteurs.No don't laugh,I'm being perfectly serious.This way both sides win.The hunt saboteurs are protecting the foxes and the hunters and dogs still get to enjoy all the tradition and fun of the hunt.

Yes,the problem of controlling foxes and other vermin will still have to be addressed.Foxes are indiscriminate predaters killing 6 chickens to get just one chicken.If they aren't controlled then there will be too many of them chasing too small a source of food which gradually will lessen as they are such indiscriminate killers.The health generally of the fox population will drop and there the real cruelty begins.We need to cull any wild animal that is in danger of overbreeding and over running it's food source.I think hunting with dogs in the 21st century is an anachronism and that it is time to find much more humane ways to achieve the end result.I would also question just how effective the present way of fox hunting is in real terms.Just how much of the fox population are actually controlled by these methods?

However as I've said already I'm not as bothered about banning these pastimes as I am about other issues which I consider much more important at the present time.We have far too much violent crimes and violent gangs and there are far too many youngsters with access to guns on our streets.We really need to come up with an effective way of dealing with drugs too.We have to make sure that our government (no matter how ineffectual they are) are properly and securely protected whilst being available to the voters.Why hunting is regarded as such a big issue by so many Labour MP's when so much else needs sorting beats me.How about really sorting out our education system,the National Health Service FIRST.There truly is a lot more to be dealt with elsewhere and I really think this is an issue to be dealt with lower down on the TO DO LIST.

Incog.

[mrmassive]

I agree with you scastle. You should of said in your post that hunters are vermin not foxes

[mrmassive]

The House of Commons now does need to find new security ways to stop the vermin entering the building.

Originally Posted by scastle

Why shouldn't the government stick it's nose in to this? It's something a lot of voters feel quite strongly about (whether for or against). Why should the Government stand by and allow creulty to animals (even vermin such as foxes)?

This is actually a pretty fundamental question about what we believe Government is for.

Should a government in general exist to tell us what we can do, or what we can't?
Should a government ban anything simply because a majority of people believe that thing to be wrong? (thereby putting a whole lot of minority pursuits, certain religions included, at risk)

I think Government's role is to ensure an environment exists in the country to allow people to get on with their lives, as far as possible, without let or hindrance. The existence of foxhunting does not cause let or hindrance to anyone. The existence of foxes, on the contrary, causes a good deal of hindrance to certain farmers.

As for animal cruelty, if the Government was genuinely concerned about that as an issue, there is a lengthy list of animal cruelty issues far more serious than this that they could tackle first. This has nothing to do with animal cruelty; that is pure smokescreen designed to obscure one disgusting fact: that the Labour back-benches are still populated by Marxist dinosaurs who wish to ban certain pursuits and traditions purely and simply because they perceive them to represent a social class they would rather did not exist. Whatever Government is for, Government for the purposes of blindly imposing ideology is not it.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Yes,the problem of controlling foxes and other vermin will still have to be addressed.Foxes are indiscriminate predaters killing 6 chickens to get just one chicken.If they aren't controlled then there will be too many of them chasing too small a source of food which gradually will lessen as they are such indiscriminate killers.The health generally of the fox population will drop and there the real cruelty begins.We need to cull any wild animal that is in danger of overbreeding and over running it's food source.I think hunting with dogs in the 21st century is an anachronism and that it is time to find much more humane ways to achieve the end result.I would also question just how effective the present way of fox hunting is in real terms.Just how much of the fox population are actually controlled by these methods?

Actually, I did hear one hunt supporter saying it is the most efficient way to kill foxes. Not sure how he can justify that, as I would not call using many people, many dogs and many horses (don't know the exact figures) to kill 1 fox efficient.

I've always thought it would be far more efficient for a single hunter to go and shoot the fox. Not necessarily more humane, but more efficient.