Saddams Sons

Steve H · 26-07-2003, 21:10

Well, Finally they've been captured.. Just gotta wait for saddam now.

Do you agree that there pictures (after death) Should of been shown in Newspapers, and Live on TV?..Do you think it breaches War Agreements?

I think it does, But still think they were correct in showing them..

Anyway, Saddams not got long

Russ · 26-07-2003, 21:13

America has yet again shown how hypocritical it can be. When the bodies of the dead troops were shown on Iraqi TV, it was 'barbaric', but of course because good ol' Uncle Sam is doing it, it's "different".

Stuart W · 26-07-2003, 21:57

Yes Russ, it is VERY different.

They showed ordinary troops.

The Americans are trying their hardest to prove that the brothers realy are dead.

We are I'm sure all aware how Iraq uses lies and eception as a matter of course. It will be a difficult task to prove the brothers are dead without a semi-public autopsy.

I'd bet pound to penny that Iraqi people are being told that America has fallen for the "lookalike" trick, and that the brothers are actually safe and well.

Ramrod · 26-07-2003, 22:33

I agree. It was distasteful but necessary. A lot of arabs still think that 9/11 was perpetrated by the yanks

. They seem to need a lot of convincing that something is true before they believe it.

Stuart W · 26-07-2003, 22:45

Let's be fair, this is a nation of people who have suffered under sadman hussain's rule and are ready to believe what they are told or risk being killed / tortured or worse.

Once you have lived like that for a while, someone comes along and says "It's OK, I killed 'em" you're gonna need convincing!
Imagin the punishment for being publicly pleased that they are dead only to find out they are alive and well and on their way round!

Personaly, I believe they are dead. I understand the medical proof esp. the x-rays etc. but I am a western educated man from a (semi) free country.

[User Edit] Didn't want to double post & had more to say!

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ D
America has yet again shown how hypocritical it can be. When the bodies of the dead troops were shown on Iraqi TV, it was 'barbaric', but of course because good ol' Uncle Sam is doing it, it's "different".

Is seeing pictures of dead kids sick?

I would imagin right now you are thinking "Damn yes!" and you would be correct.... but..... what about the mother of a teenage girl who decided to publish pictures of her daughter dead on her bedroom floor in a bid to try and get youngsters off hard drugs?
I'm in agreement with her. Under certain circumstances, it is important to show pictures of the dead.

Ramrod · 26-07-2003, 23:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuart W
Is seeing pictures of dead kids sick?

I would imagin right now you are thinking "Damn yes!" and you would be correct.... but..... what about the mother of a teenage girl who decided to publish pictures of her daughter dead on her bedroom floor in a bid to try and get youngsters off hard drugs?
I'm in agreement with her. Under certain circumstances, it is important to show pictures of the dead.

Good point.

etccarmageddon · 27-07-2003, 00:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuart W
what about the mother of a teenage girl who decided to publish pictures of her daughter dead on her bedroom floor in a bid to try and get youngsters off hard drugs?
I'm in agreement with her. Under certain circumstances, it is important to show pictures of the dead.

good point...

so did the next of kin authorise the yanks to publish the pics of saddam's 2 dead sons?

I can understand where Russ is coming from on this - it's double standards to complain about breaking the geneva convention by showing dead american troops but then thinking it's acceptable to show dead iraqi leaders.

Did they even ASK the iraqi people or at least wait to be asked to publish photographic proof? It appears to me that they rushed these photos out to the media.

Stuart W · 27-07-2003, 00:23

Quote:

Originally posted by etccarmageddon
good point...

so did the next of kin authorise the yanks to publish the pics of saddam's 2 dead sons?

I can understand where Russ is coming from on this - it's double standards to complain about breaking the geneva convention by showing dead american troops but then thinking it's acceptable to show dead iraqi leaders.

Simple. The dead american troops were just that. troops. Showing the pics of their bodies did nothing but antagonise. There was no need to show the bodies as the Americans, like us, let people know there have been deaths and even name the individual soldiers in most cases.

The brothers were evil tyrants who tortured and killed every day. They butchered entire families and raped young girls for days on end.

The americans needed to post pics to prove the death of the brothers as so many Iraqi's will remain scared of showing they are pleased with the deaths just in case the brothers are fine and about to take leadership again.

Let's not forget the kind of news buletins they showed during the conflict! "The Americans cannot get into Baghdad. They are miles away" etc. I fully expect them to be telling the Iraqi people that the brothers are fine and well and living with Sadman Hussain somewhere waiting to take leadership back again.

If we can convince the Iraqi people that they are dead and Sadman is to follow, they will inevitably rebel against what's left of the 'old' leadership and with any luck, help us iradicate terrorism.

Oh, and as for next of kins permission, Sadman can call any american embasy and pop in to sue

danielf · 27-07-2003, 00:30

I suppose that, given the reaction of the Iraqis on seeing the footage, there was a point in showing it.

But I agree with Russ, that the US is being extremely hypocrytical. They will do whatever they see fit when it suits their purposes, and are very quick to quote the Geneva convention when Iraq showed footage of captured american soldiers (even though we saw captured Iraqis before that).

Also, Let's not forget the US are holding hundreds of people at Guantanamo Bay. They can hold these people indefinitely without even charging them. Under present law, any person arriving at a US airport can be wizzed off to Guantanamo Bay without authorities having to prove there is any suspicion against this person.

But hey, these people at Guantanamo Bay are not prisoners of war, these are 'illegal combatants' caught in the war on terror. I guess it must be ok then...

Stuart W · 27-07-2003, 00:33

Come on!

Sort yourselves out!!

When HAVN'T the Americans had double standards!!

All I'm saying is, this time I agree with them!!

etccarmageddon · 27-07-2003, 00:38

Quote:

Originally posted by danielf
Let's not forget the US are holding hundreds of people at Guantanamo Bay. They can hold these people indefinitely without even charging them. Under present law, any person arriving at a US airport can be wizzed off to Guantanamo Bay without authorities having to prove there is any suspicion against this person.

But hey, these people at Guantanamo Bay are not prisoners of war, these are 'illegal combatants' caught in the war on terror. I guess it must be ok then...

yeah it's understandable that the US could behave like this in the aftermath of 9/11 but it's been 2 years now - yes back then we could accept guantanamo bay because the USA was in a kind of 'state of emergency' but 2 years on it's about time it was wound down.

Stuart W · 27-07-2003, 00:45

But there must be an arguement that the fact that there has been no major terorist attack is partly a result of the effectivnes of guantanamo bay!

Sorry, normaly I wouldn't side with the Americans, but recently, I have had to agree with their ideas. Harsh, yes. Effective, YES!

danielf · 27-07-2003, 00:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuart W
But there must be an arguement that the fact that there has been no major terorist attack is partly a result of the effectivnes of guantanamo bay!

I am very sorry, but if I have ever heard someone mistake a correlation for causality then this really beats it.

Yes, arrest people, incarcarate them, try them etc. But: obey human rights. The US is supposed to be the 'land of the free'. Right now it's more like the land of 'abuse human rights whenever you see fit, because we can get away with it'.

27-07-2003, 01:01

Quote:

Originally posted by etccarmageddon
Did they even ASK the iraqi people or at least wait to be asked to publish photographic proof? It appears to me that they rushed these photos out to the media.

On the contrary, the Iraqi people were *demanding* proof that they were actually dead.

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3093637.stm for instance, although even now people still have doubts that it is them.

I think in this case the showing of the pictures was justified because the Iraqi people have lived in fear of these men for so long that only categorical proof would be enough to convince them that they're really dead.

Russ · 27-07-2003, 01:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuart W
Let's be fair, this is a nation of people who have suffered under sadman hussain's rule and are ready to believe what they are told or risk being killed / tortured or worse.

Once you have lived like that for a while, someone comes along and says "It's OK, I killed 'em" you're gonna need convincing!
Imagin the punishment for being publicly pleased that they are dead only to find out they are alive and well and on their way round!

Personaly, I believe they are dead. I understand the medical proof esp. the x-rays etc. but I am a western educated man from a (semi) free country.

[User Edit] Didn't want to double post & had more to say!

I would imagin right now you are thinking "Damn yes!" and you would be correct.... but..... what about the mother of a teenage girl who decided to publish pictures of her daughter dead on her bedroom floor in a bid to try and get youngsters off hard drugs?
I'm in agreement with her. Under certain circumstances, it is important to show pictures of the dead.

Side-stepping any pretences of being judgmental there, whether the bodies shown on tv were troops, dictators or the average man in the street is irrelevant - the US cannot complain about Iraq showing dead bodies on tv during their own crusade for 'peace' while doing exactly the same for their own agendas.