Why is music piracy so bad?

[Tezcatlipoca]

Interesting article on the impact of illegal file sharing....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/sto...265840,00.html

Listen to the flip side

New research suggesting that file sharing has no impact upon sales of CDs has, not surprisingly, angered the music industry.

(snip)

Yet despite the industry's belief that file sharing is anathema to record sales, a recent study has shown that it may not be so clear cut. "Downloads have an effect on sales that is statistically indistinguishable from zero," the controversial report claims, even going so far as to suggest that for popular albums, "the impact of file sharing on sales is likely to be positive".

(big snip)

[Richard M]

Originally Posted by kronas

actually downloading helps in some circumstances, i downloaded some songs and albums. then went out bought the CD's or ordered off the net.

I do that too, I think they should at least release proper music videos on the net because they're used as a promotional item anyway.
As an example of what "piracy" can do, I recently downloaded three things:

Shakira - Unplugged
Shakira - Off the record documentary
J-LO - Lets get loud live show

Now don't laugh at me but I enjoyed those so much I went to Amazon and bought the DVDs because I wanted a proper "real" version I could keep forever.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Richard M

I do that too

Same here. If I like something I've downloaded, I go out & buy the CD (well, or just buy it from CDWOW...cheaper than going to HMV)

If I don't like a download....straight to the trash.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Richard M

I do that too, I think they should at least release proper music videos on the net because they're used as a promotional item anyway.
As an example of what "piracy" can do, I recently downloaded three things:

Shakira - Unplugged
Shakira - Off the record documentary
J-LO - Lets get loud live show

Now don't laugh at me but I enjoyed those so much I went to Amazon and bought the DVDs because I wanted a proper "real" version I could keep forever.

at your choices, you see im all for free stuff but if i see a good artist with a good album or song i will buy.

but others dont

so here lies the problem, how to convince people to buy rather than 'obtain' for free, i suppose with cd prices coming down slightly, the internet, and general mail order prices are better than a few years ago.

now that the digital age is here with regards to the legal downloads competition is there in the sector, but it can still be sometimes cheaper to buy a CD rather than download.

Originally Posted by Matt D

If I don't like a download....straight to the trash.

exactly, its the reason i bought Avril's album, bought Evanescences album, Cauterize's album and others

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Macca371

Ok, I promise I don't intend to get the site into legal trouble here... but I was wondering - why is music piracy so bad?

Music piracy is so bad compared to what? If you're comparing it to murder or strealing physical CDs then of course it is not as bad - but it is morally wrong. You are also lumping all music piracy into one argument, and you cannot compare a casual music downloader with a guy flogging copies of CDs at a car boot sale or on eBay.

If you spent three years writing a book and found there were a thousand photocopies of each print, would you be happy? Would that be OK? What about if someone took your book and re-printed it without your permission and sold it?

Originally Posted by Macca371

Even with the sales they are still getting, the record companies and the musicians are still filthy rich and they are getting more money than necessary.

How can this be a justification for copying something you don't own? British Gas is getting rich on providing us with gas. It's a business, if you don't want to pay the going rate, don't get the product. Plus the record industry is making far less money now than when you used to buy LPs - and that means that there is less investment in new talent, which turns into a vicious circle.

Originally Posted by Macca371

Plus, I believe the price of music are kinda these days is kinda ridiculous.

Again, not a reason take what is not yours. I think the Aston Martin DB9 is overpriced, but I'm not going to break into my local dealer and nick one.

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

Cd's came out at about £20 each, about 15 or so years ago. And they stayed at about that price for 10 years or so.

<snip>

So in my opinion, feck'em. They had a lisence to print money, and now the public is switchin off and droppin out.

I have never paid 20 quid for a CD. I bought my first CD player in 1988, and CDs we're about the £12 mark then. So now you can buy most new releases for less than £10 meaning that they have reduced in price by about 17%, but in real terms taking into account inflation, if the prices had stayed the same since then, the cost should be around the £16 mark right now.

Whether you agree with the labels and the music they produce or not (and you're making quite a sweeping statement there) you still don't have the right to take someone else's work without paying.

Originally Posted by ianathuth

When you look at the price of music it is the retailer that probably takes the biggest slice of the retail price. For instance with computer software we used to buy games that retailed at £50 for just under £30.

This is very different for the music industry. Dealer prices for major new releases are between £7 and £8. There is a very small margin on music for retailers.

Whilst it is going to be a long process, the music industry has to educate people who cannot see any problem with downloading music for free. There is no such thing as a victimless crime, and if you take music (whether you would have bought it or not) is infringing someone else's work, and triviallising their efforts.

Having said that there is no black and white on the issue of downloading:

Many studies have found that the majority of those who download music for free actually buy more CDs than those that don't. Obviously there are extremes (I know someone who refuses to buy any CDs becuase he can download it all). Then of course the same questions asked in surveys by the music bodies show the complete opposite.

Then there is the fact that not all music is available in all markets on CD - is it as wrong to download a track you love, but cannot get in this country? Whilst still technically unauthorised, I don't personally think it is as 'bad'.

What illegal downloading did was put a very large alarm clock right by the ears of the music industry. But they hit the snooze button, and went back to sleep whilst devoting a minute amount of time to their own online activity planning.

But file-trading grew at an amazing rate - it was new, available to the tech-savvy audience the music companies need to live and spread far more quickly than the great oil tanker of the music industry could turn round.

But it's getting better - most honest and normal people will start to use legal online services where they chose to download, and their choice will improve over time.

There will always be the dishonest and immoral people who chose to infringe artistes' copyright, there always have been way before the internet - but these are people who treat music as a commodity and come up with lame justifications like 'CDs are too expensive'. They are also the people who have no vision - if everyone only downloaded music illegally, there would be no more new music, period.

The question you must ask yourself when downloading illegally is: would I want someone to steal something of mine that I worked hard for, was proud of and was available for sale?

Originally Posted by Incognitas

And the musicians themselves? where do you stand on them?Don't they deserve to make money?A living?If folk don't get renumeration for their efforts than they will give up.Then who will make the music?

Its a quandry (sp).

As much as I hate giving the record company money, I dont want to rip of the artists either. (It sucks being an honest sort). As several other posters have said, I'll dl a track/ albumn, and if I like it I'll buy it. Once i've bought the CD, I'll copy it to disk, and then keep the original in top nick.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

. Once i've bought the CD, I'll copy it to disk, and then keep the original in top nick.

same here.

i dont think this is bad, atleast buying the CD's is helping artists, comparisons cannot be made to carjacking or things like that, it goes on case by case.

some want to buy are not prepared to pay the money because of cost.

overall the quality of music had declined so finding a decent artist/song is hard, and i hope compaines dont blame declines in sales for that, they seem to spend heavily in promoting the likes of the pop idol contest winners and such alike.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Music piracy is so bad compared to what? If you're comparing it to murder or strealing physical CDs

I think you could probably most closely compare it with receiving stolen goods.

Yet Piracy isnt new.
As a kid I regularly Taped the top 10 off the radio.
I taped computer games, I taped the NOW albums off my friends on both vinyl and CD.

The difference now is that its much easier to do. I don think that it is as big a problem as record comapnies would have us belive and the RIAA is harming them by its actions.

Alienating the people you want to buy your product isnt the best way to get them to do so and walk away from Piracy.

The bottom line is that piracy can not and will not ever be stopped.
Whether you view it as right or wrong I doubt many people at some point in their lives have NEVER commited an act of piracy or watched a pirated movie etc.

The efforts of the RIAA and their ilk in attempting to prevent piracy are only going to make me less likely to buy CDs. Why should I pay them money for a CD that violates the accepted standards, with the associated risk that it may not work in the device that I choose to play it on? If a the packaging for a "CD" states that it has copy-protection then it simply will not get bought. If it doesn`t state it clearly and it does have copy-protection it will get taken back to the shop as mis-sold.

If they want me to pay for music then they can stop attempting to dictate what devices it can and cannot be played on.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Yet Piracy isnt new.
As a kid I regularly Taped the top 10 off the radio.
I taped computer games, I taped the NOW albums off my friends on both vinyl and CD.

The difference now is that its much easier to do. I don think that it is as big a problem as record comapnies would have us belive and the RIAA is harming them by its actions.

Alienating the people you want to buy your product isnt the best way to get them to do so and walk away from Piracy.

The bottom line is that piracy can not and will not ever be stopped.
Whether you view it as right or wrong I doubt many people at some point in their lives have NEVER commited an act of piracy or watched a pirated movie etc.

Piracy isn't new, but I would think that only a very small percentage of people have engaged in piracy or watched a pirated movie.

There are millions of pirated copies of films and music tracks, but I would like to bet that a large percentage of them are never watched or listened to. They have just been downloaded because it was easy to do so and had the thrill of getting something for nothing with little likelyhood of being caught.

Can piracy ever be stopped? Who knows what methods may become available to cut down dramatically the possibility of copying music and films. The more that it can be cut down, the more the chance that the industry will clamp down on the ones that continue to break the law. How many people will continue to risk having a large fine, their computing equipment seized and destroyed and getting a criminal record for downloading / uploading things that they never watch, listen to or use?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by kronas

actually downloading helps in some circumstances, i downloaded some songs and albums. then went out bought the CD's or ordered off the net.

For all of the stuff you downloaded?

Originally Posted by kronas

cauterize being a fine example.

Ok

Originally Posted by kronas

record compaines are reduing prices, only because CD's could be on the way out, now that legitimate downloading is catching on.

Agreed-they have been milking the cash cow far too long.

It's all about freedom of choice, but just because you don't have the choice you want, that doesn't make it right to steal what you want.

(Not you specifically Kronie, was a generic 'you'!)

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Interesting article on the impact of illegal file sharing....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/sto...265840,00.html

Actually, I did read a while ago that despite what the Record Industry is claiming, according to their own figures, sales in 2002 were at the same level as 1992. Seeing as file sharing networks didn't exist then, I would suggest that if the music industry is not selling enough then they have problems elsewhere.

Possibly something to do with the amount of manufactured & copycat bands around at the moment.

Regarding song downloading, I don't do it much, but when I do download a song I like, I will try and buy it on disc. Admittedly, that's not always possible as the version I download may be a rare remix, or an old song that is no longer available. Even then, I do know a good second hand/rare records shop that I often buy discs from (Beanos in Croydon if anyone else knows it).

[MadGamer]

but i feel that music these days isnt the same as what it used to be in the 1980's and 1990's.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Wayne A

but i feel that music these days isnt the same as what it used to be in the 1980's and 1990's.

Having live through the 80's (unlike yourself) I can categorically state that quality of music nowaday's (if you don't chain yourself to MTV or TOTP) is excellent in comparison, now the 70's, that's a different matter.