Bleeding-heart liberal do-gooders

I'll think about it.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Damien

its just a thing that right wing groups say to attack liberals the BNP often uses that prase it makes them seem llike they cannnot be tough and such

And dont forget the other way around, liberals will accuse people of supporting the hard line BNP policies if someone agrees in principle with one item on the BNP agenda.

[punky]

I've in trouble with this recently so I better be careful. I think the distinctions need to be made between "do-gooder", "liberal" and "bleeding-heart". They are all different although sometimes people can be more than one. In my mind, a "do-gooder" is someone who can't help helping, but has very short sight. They are so consumed in what they are doing, they don't realise, or wan't to know the consequences of it down the road. Removing "The Three Little Pigs" books to not offend muslims, that kind of thing. Liberal is a pretty open term. Anyone who is left-wing, casual, etc. (Not that liberal, is different from socialist, which is also left-wing). A "bleeding-heart" person is someone who cares about everyone, wether they should or not/deserve it or not.

Interesting someone said that as liberals are do-gooders, are conservatives evil? Well, that is how we are all percieved. If you think liberal, you think of a harmless, happy, hippy, don't you? You think of conservative, you think of a CEO in skyscraper smoking cigars, killing children. Although, nowadays, I tend think of the ELF, etc with liberal, and I think they are way more evil.

I'm kind of suprised by the poll, I thought here the liberal Guardian readers way outnumbered the right-wingers.

Originally Posted by towny

Is anyone prepared to stand up and say 'I'm a bleeding-heart liberal do-gooder and proud of it!'?

No, but I'm probably the type of person that certain people choose to characterise as a "a bleeding-heart liberal do-gooder" because I'm not in favour of bringing back National Service or capital punishment or the Birch or shooting people in the back or locking people up without a fair trial or considering there might be another side to the story than the one they read/ saw in the Murdoch media or...

Still, is anyone prepared to stand up and say "I'm a narrow-minded, right-wing, reactionary, knee-jerk authoritarian and proud of it"?

<Graham steps out of the way before he's trampled in the rush...! >

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by punky

Interesting someone said that as liberals are do-gooders, are conservatives evil? Well, that is how we are all percieved. If you think liberal, you think of a harmless, happy, hippy, don't you? You think of conservative, you think of a CEO in skyscraper smoking cigars, killing children. Although, nowadays, I tend think of the ELF, etc with liberal, and I think they are way more evil.

Sorry I was being pedantic.

What story is this about pigs? Wouldn't the 3 little pigs also be offensive to Jews and Christians also?

" The pig also because it is a splitter of the
hoof but there is no cud. It is unclean for
you. None of their flesh must you eat and carcass
you must not touch. "
Deuteronomy 14:8 ( Bible)

Of course I don't see a problem with a story about a pigs, they are merely forbidden from eating them, not telling stories about them.

Oh come on! Most of us are a mixture of the two sides of the coin.Not many people are truly,totally one side or the other.They are rare people too.

Incog who hopes she is a liberal but realises that at times she is a fascist about certain issues.


Incog.

Originally Posted by Graham

No, but I'm probably the type of person that certain people choose to characterise as a "a bleeding-heart liberal do-gooder" because I'm not in favour of bringing back National Service or capital punishment or the Birch or shooting people in the back or locking people up without a fair trial or considering there might be another side to the story than the one they read/ saw in the Murdoch media or...

Still, is anyone prepared to stand up and say "I'm a narrow-minded, right-wing, reactionary, knee-jerk authoritarian and proud of it"?

<Graham steps out of the way before he's trampled in the rush...! >

I freely admit to being a right-wing, euro-sceptic, authoritarian, in favour of National Service, Corporal Punishment and Capital Punishment.

At the same time I believe that it is important that we live in an inclusive, classless society. That protects the weak, and punishes those who break the law. I firmly believe that was can build a fair society, but only if we treat everyone the same, be they black, white, asian, disabled or of good health. As far as I an concerned, 'Western Civilisation' is quickly becomming morally bankrupt, and staggering toward decline.

But thats just how I see the circular pattern of history repeating itself.

Well that's my opinion, and as everyone knows -

Opinions are like @$$h0le$, everyone's got one.

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by downquark1

Sorry I was being pedantic.

What story is this about pigs? Wouldn't the 3 little pigs also be offensive to Jews and Christians also?

" The pig also because it is a splitter of the
hoof but there is no cud. It is unclean for
you. None of their flesh must you eat and carcass
you must not touch. "
Deuteronomy 14:8 ( Bible)

Of course I don't see a problem with a story about a pigs, they are merely forbidden from eating them, not telling stories about them.

That is the exact point. You're average muslim isn't bothered about a childs book about pigs, but some people go too far the other way, thinking that they would be upset by it and ban them.

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

I freely admit to being a right-wing, euro-sceptic, authoritarian, in favour of National Service, Corporal Punishment and Capital Punishment.

Well apart from euro-sceptic, I can't say I agree with the above, however...

At the same time I believe that it is important that we live in an inclusive, classless society. That protects the weak, and punishes those who break the law. I firmly believe that was can build a fair society, but only if we treat everyone the same, be they black, white, asian, disabled or of good health. As far as I an concerned, 'Western Civilisation' is quickly becomming morally bankrupt, and staggering toward decline.

... let's see what I agree with here:

Inclusive, classless society? Check

Protect the weak? Check

Punish those who break the law? Check (Well, sort of, I prefer "attempt to rehabilitate, if possible")

Fair society? Check

Treat everybody the same? Check

So, it seems that, as usual, the goal is the same, it's just the way to get there that is different...

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

I freely admit to being a right-wing, euro-sceptic, authoritarian, in favour of National Service, Corporal Punishment and Capital Punishment.

National Service - A thoroughly bad idea these days. A modern soldier requires a much better skill set than in the "good old days". The average person off the street wouldn`t make an effective soldier, even with training, unless you are advocating using the masses as cannon fodder. As I said in a thread before, put me in National Service and I`ll make sure I`m sitting on my arse in the brig more quickly than they can get the call-up papers to me.

Corporal Punishment - Yeah, I suppose I`ll agree with you there, the one time I got the cane it was the easiest punishment I ever had. A few lashes across the palm of the hand, over in under a minute and I was out of there. Compared to the knocks and scrapes I got in the playground it was a cakewalk. I`d take that any day over detention, at least with the cane I was home in time to catch the children's television on BBC1.

Capital Punishment - Not exactly a punishment though compared to a life behind bars. If I was up on a murder charge and given the option of capital punishment I'd take it, certainly preferable to being permanently locked away.

[punky]

Originally Posted by downquark1

What story is this about pigs? Wouldn't the 3 little pigs also be offensive to Jews and Christians also?

" The pig also because it is a splitter of the
hoof but there is no cud. It is unclean for
you. None of their flesh must you eat and carcass
you must not touch. "
Deuteronomy 14:8 ( Bible)

Of course I don't see a problem with a story about a pigs, they are merely forbidden from eating them, not telling stories about them.

Don't have a go at me about it I'm suprised you don't rememeber, it has been on here a few times. Anyway. Some school somewhere decided to remove books about the three little pigs. I'm pretty sure they said it was to benefit Muslims solely, as the school had an extremely large proportion of Muslims versus Jews and Christians. At the time the Muslim Council Of Great Britain, or whatever its called was largely silent, but now as these kind of things become more common, they have started to say it is unnecessary patronisation of Muslims.

Also, if I was a solidly right-wing I would declare it, but i'm not really. The last political poll I took, which was one to decide what presidential candidate was right for me came out as Edwards, Kerry then Bush I like to think of myself as independant, but as time goes on and I get older, i'm becoming more and more right-leaning. That said I do believe in some of the staples of the left-wing manifesto, like right to have an abortion, a government recognised union of gay people, a fair, balanced, common-sense based welfare system. The right wing bits that come in are normally to do with fiancial policies and such. A country is like a business and needs to be run so. I'm against a national service obviously, i'm pro-capital punishment, I think for certain cases, and I don't think schools should bring back the birch, but I think they should maybe more scope for disciplining kids. I've said it before, the country doesn't need a right or left wing government. It needs a bit of both.

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by towny

This ill-defined menagerie of meddlers is blamed for much of what goes wrong in our society these days. So much so, that whole arguments on this very forum are built around them, and objections to such arguments can often focus on whether or not they even exist rather than the substantive issue.

So, what do people think? Is there any such thing? What makes a person a 'do-gooder' or a 'bleeding-heart liberal'? Is anyone prepared to stand up and say 'I'm a bleeding-heart liberal do-gooder and proud of it!'?

Im about to go to bed so have not read the whole thread.
On this forum I have often been labeled a "do gooder" ...once someone even said "your so right on it hurts"

I stand up for the oppressed.....whats up with that

I believe in being an egalitarian

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by dr wadd

Corporal Punishment - Yeah, I suppose I`ll agree with you there, the one time I got the cane it was the easiest punishment I ever had. A few lashes across the palm of the hand, over in under a minute and I was out of there.

Caning on the hand was always seen as a 'pretend' caning (in my schools). Proper caning was on the backside and that bl**dy well hurt

Originally Posted by punky

Don't have a go at me about it I'm suprised you don't rememeber, it has been on here a few times. Anyway. Some school somewhere decided to remove books about the three little pigs. I'm pretty sure they said it was to benefit Muslims solely, as the school had an extremely large proportion of Muslims versus Jews and Christians. At the time the Muslim Council Of Great Britain, or whatever its called was largely silent, but now as these kind of things become more common, they have started to say it is unnecessary patronisation of Muslims.

Also, if I was a solidly right-wing I would declare it, but i'm not really. The last political poll I took, which was one to decide what presidential candidate was right for me came out as Edwards, Kerry then Bush I like to think of myself as independant, but as time goes on and I get older, i'm becoming more and more right-leaning. That said I do believe in some of the staples of the left-wing manifesto, like right to have an abortion, a government recognised union of gay people, a fair, balanced, common-sense based welfare system. The right wing bits that come in are normally to do with fiancial policies and such. A country is like a business and needs to be run so. I'm against a national service obviously, i'm pro-capital punishment, I think for certain cases, and I don't think schools should bring back the birch, but I think they should maybe more scope for disciplining kids. I've said it before, the country doesn't need a right or left wing government. It needs a bit of both.

Finally someone after my own heart.

Originally Posted by punky

Interesting someone said that as liberals are do-gooders, are conservatives evil? Well, that is how we are all percieved. If you think liberal, you think of a harmless, happy, hippy, don't you? You think of conservative, you think of a CEO in skyscraper smoking cigars, killing children. Although, nowadays, I tend think of the ELF, etc with liberal, and I think they are way more evil.

Thats just a stupid stereotype people are not defined by their political leanings (although it depends).

Also the liberals do good stuff a lot of time and to label them as do-gooders etc etc is stupid. I personally hate the phrase as it is usually used by the BNP and right wing groups to put down those opposed to them

As someone said its both sides of the coin but either way the world is not heading to disaster because of lack of discipline or rampant crime or whatever wave of fear people have. We should just see what really needs to be improved and how instead on constantly criticizing and bad mouthing and having a belief that all right wing people are NAZIS and all left wing people are commies its stupid