AIDS/Panorama

What did people think of the Panorama program about the churchs claim that condoms do not protect against AIDS? Although the church may be right about condoms not prevents the spread of aids this was due to other reasons and mainly down to other factors in africa. (e.g wrong size, bad storage)

But as for 'does the condom protect against it?' The evidance was in favor of it does protect.

They showed a survey where people who had reguler sex with a infected person and used a condom. 99% of people did not catch it and the other 1% was down to mis-use and people not using condoms when they said they did.

Now for the way you can catch HIV though a condom (when used correctly)

1. Have sex with a infected person
2. The extremely unlikely event of getting a condom with a hole in it
3. The equally unlikely event of the virus getting though (even a condom with a hole in it is unlikely to have a hole big enough to allow hiv though)
4. The also unlikely event that you do get affected

The study from which the church took there "there can be up to 35% chance it gets though" from a report which they misquoted which showed that on the condoms with the biggest holes only 1 small dot of water got though and HIV is 5x bigger than a water molecule. Also the test applied a lot more presser than a real case would.

Basically a condom is very very safe if it is used correctly. Also the chances of catching the virus (even if your partner has HIV) has the same chance of a plane your in crashing, lower than 0.5%. (Thats if your partner has HIV)

Now the question i am asking is not if we should teach people the correct use as this is important and goes without saying. The churches claims where based on a condom being used correctly and so was the results

The question is this: What is your view about the church saying that condoms do not protect against AIDS when they clearly are very effective?

These claims came from the Catholic Church although this was from the vatican, most people with in this church do not agree with the claims

[Russ]

Which 'church' was it?

Why are you saying the church?It wasn't all christian faiths who made this claim it was the catholic faith.

Anyway I'm sorry to have missed it but footy rules in this house at the moment.

Incog.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Which 'church' was it?

Catholic Church

I should point out that there was a large number of people within the church who disagreed with the Vatican on this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3843797.stm

Note: This link only contains the churchs view it does not show the evidance that panorama showed

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Why are you saying the church?It wasn't all christian faiths who made this claim it was the catholic faith.

Anyway I'm sorry to have missed it but footy rules in this house at the moment.

Incog.

Well, The evidence was basically what we know now although the condom is more secure than i thought. I didnt know that even if you have intercourse with someone with the virus it is very very unlikely you will get the virus. Again this is if it is used correctly (but the churches claim was also based on correct use)

edit: Some more information on aids (and again showing what a brillent company the BBC is )
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_p...ds/default.stm

the Catholic church's claim you mean surely?

Though strictly speaking the original claims came direct from the Vatican.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

the Catholic church's claim you mean surely?

Though strictly speaking the original claims came direct from the Vatican.

errr....yes read my post above

[Russ]

Seems like the Catholic Church yet again knows best on how to stir up a hornet's nest...

[greencreeper]

Unprotected sex has been demonised to the point that people would rather confess to sodomising a goat than to having had unprotected sex. It does make it difficult to gather accurate statistics. If someone tests positive for HIV and they've claimed that their only risky activity was oral sex, well then that's another infection chalked up to oral sex...

If I told you there's a cult that advocates practices that are harmful to the health of its members, and that cult has a history of persecution, torture and murder, you'd be up in arms demanding action. How come we tolerate the Catholic Church then??

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Unprotected sex has been demonised to the point that people would rather confess to sodomising a goat than to having had unprotected sex. It does make it difficult to gather accurate statistics. If someone tests positive for HIV and they've claimed that their only risky activity was oral sex, well then that's another infection chalked up to oral sex...

If I told you there's a cult that advocates practices that are harmful to the health of its members, and that cult has a history of persecution, torture and murder, you'd be up in arms demanding action. How come we tolerate the Catholic Church then??

We are not tolerating the catholic church? That what this topics about, how people feel about their claims.....

[Russ]

This is a common problem within any section of society - one member of the Catholic Church has come out and made this statement so many will think this is a view shared by ALL Catholics. Not wishing to drag this off-topic by going in to another reason why I get frustrated with the Vatican, but I have to feel a little uncomfortable with a faith which constantly 'makes the rules' (my own choice of words, yours may differ)for its followers rather than leave them study the Bible for their own guidance.

Is there any validity in what he says about the virus being small enough to pass through the fibres of a condom? I don't know although I feel he may be mistaken.

On the whole subject - no-one ever got pregnant or contracted a STI through abstinance.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Seems like the Catholic Church yet again knows best on how to stir up a hornet's nest...

Of course, only the catholic church does that sort of thing eh?

[Russ]

Not at all but they seem to have the loudest voice at the moment.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Not at all but they seem to have the loudest voice at the moment.

Well, at least Catholicism is still newsworthy, unlike fundamentalist christianity

[Russ]

Big Brother is newsworthy too, so I wouldn't use that as a yardstick